My views on objective morality

[Catholic_Lady]

Not at all. You can disagree and still be respectful about it.

"They can have any color they want, as long as it's Black" - Henry Ford

The problem with disagreeing is that you cannot do this with most theists and not be accused of being disrespectful, because to question their god is in and of itself disrespectful to themselves. When they say that people create their gods in their own image, that's no bullshit. Having a god which walks beside you, knows your every thought before you even think them, the invisible friend and brother who saves you from sin and all - this is the textbook description of the human ego. If I challenge your god's existence, then I challenge your existence. If I say your god is wrong, then I would really be calling you out. Most believers take offense to this, and are likely to put up a violent defense against such "attacks". It's either that, or just ignore the inconvenient questions, not addressing them at all.

Why not go on there and give it a shot? You can come back and tell us what happened.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

"They can have any color they want, as long as it's Black" - Henry Ford

The problem with disagreeing is that you cannot do this with most theists and not be accused of being disrespectful, because to question their god is in and of itself disrespectful to themselves. When they say that people create their gods in their own image, that's no bullshit. Having a god which walks beside you, knows your every thought before you even think them, the invisible friend and brother who saves you from sin and all - this is the textbook description of the human ego. If I challenge your god's existence, then I challenge your existence. If I say your god is wrong, then I would really be calling you out. Most believers take offense to this, and are likely to put up a violent defense against such "attacks". It's either that, or just ignore the inconvenient questions, not addressing them at all.

Why not go on there and give it a shot? You can come back and tell us what happened.

If they want to come here, I'll be around.

[Mystic]

I wrote a big post, but I thought before I get TL:DR. I would shorten it up.

1. We didn't so well the pre-life test where we had no forms whether parable light forms or physical forms, we were just pure spirit/mind.
2. Those who did really well were trusted as Prophets, chosen Guides, chosen leaders.
3. God could of created us all happy in paradise, but he chose the opportunity for us to redeem ourselves and make our selves into gems of the divine breath.
4. Love, patience, courage, honor, take on different forms in this trial of the world, and we have opportunity to forge our souls in ways we cannot without this world of trial.
5. It's not all about "I will worship God " or "not" decision, the Devil worshiped God for 6000 thousand years when he was an Angel, but then a harder trial took place when he had to prostrate to a mortal. God wants us to test our sincerity, so that, higher forms of worship, submission, patience, love, and courage take place all for his sake.
6. God is the source of praise, greatness, goodness and it's very essence, God is the light of all light, the guiding light by which we can get guided by. This doesn't make praise, greatness, goodness, independent of God, but the exact opposite.
7. The design of this world is that all it requires is us to accept God's helping hand, enough of us, enough people to help God and his chosen Guide on earth, and everything will be put in it's proper place.  If people accepted God's Messengers, they would of been given all they ask for and justice would of been established. If the nation of Mohammad accepted God's chosen leaders and guides after Mohammad, everything would be put in it's proper place. The disaster we are facing is due to injustice of other humans. Of course God could force the issue and make good triumph over evil, but where is the opportunity for us all in that? We have no role in it, but God wants us to reward us, and help us, by us helping him.  If we help him, God will help us, and help us help him and help us through helping him.
8. The world is not designed for kids to die, it's designed in a way that kids do die, bu that's not the purpose of the world. It's like a patient complaining about side-effects of the medicine they have to take.

[J a c k]

I refrained from participating in this thread, because CL, you seemed like a very nice lady, and I tend to lose patience quickly, throwing around words like fuck, fucken, and fuuuuuck.   Since I felt that you were very nice, I didn't want to hurt your feelings the way I would to any other theist in any other thread. BUT!

Holy fuck. After reading a few pages back, my blood is boiling. So, enters mamacita to this thread. 

Has anyone you love ever been raped? Don't answer. I'm just asking, because I don't think you understand how monstrous your attitude towards rape is coming off. I think you honestly don't see it. I think you're being sincere and you feel that you're not being horrible. The thing is, I agree with whoever said that it all comes off as rape apologetic. Whateverist, babe, I'm sorry to mess with your favorite Catholic, but this is a topic that makes my skin crawl and I have forgotten how to play nice. 

I must leave something very clear first. I do not believe your god exists. I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at people like you who love a made up god who happens to be sadistic, perverted, heartless, cruel, and monstrous. I do not understand how someone could worship something that sits there and watches people get raped and does nothing. Free will my ass. There's more good that we get out of sex than bad? That's your excuse? Your god is all powerful, but he can't figure out a way to prevent rape? I could get into your whole free will argument, but fuck! I don't want to. To worship a god that in order to preserve free will allows a six year old to be raped, a woman to be raped in the street... everything that comes along with that after...

Like I said. I'm not mad at a non existent god. I'm mad at his creators and followers who would defend things like rape in order to make him look good. He works in mysterious ways my ass. Tell that to the victims and their families.

[Catholic_Lady]

*Sigh*

I'm not defending rape.

[Mystic]

There is no "objective morality" yet people argue morals on to what God should be where he to exist like they know morality not only objectively but in it's ultimate form.

Like they know how the world should be designed absolutely as if they have all perspectives and have thought of things from various angles.

[bennyboy]

And as a woman, I find it pretty offensive that you're saying some people have been "niceish" to me only because of what I look like and the size of my chest, and not because of how I am as a person and how I have treated others here. (btw, I AM a she. You can ask that to one of the 10 forum members I have video skyped with, including KingPin, Tiberious, Whateverist, Losty, Poca, and others).  

I haven't said anyone was "niceish." I've said they've been nicer to you because of who they think you are, not because of the quality of your ideas. Having seen many forums involving religious males of various persuasions, I'm pretty comfortable that my assertion represents reality. If you find it offensive, that's fine, but I think you have benefited from it.

To answer your question, I won't give up my beliefs because they are what I honestly believe to be the truth. And contrary to popular belief around here, they actually DO shape who I am and how I conduct myself. Not on the big things, like, obviously I would not be a serial killer if I didn't believe in God. But with the little things and just every day attitude, conduct, outlook on life and on other people, yes, I do try to follow the teachings and examples of Christ.

And yet you believe that an all-good God allows the rape of young children so that pedophiles can express their free will. Do you deny this? Yes or no? God HAS the power to prevent the suffering of these innocents, but chooses not do prevent it. Do you deny this? Yes or no?

[bennyboy]

*Sigh*

I'm not defending rape.

You are defending a philosophical view of free will and God which is compatible with rape.

[J a c k]

To answer your question, I won't give up my beliefs because they are what I honestly believe to be the truth. And contrary to popular belief around here, they actually DO shape who I am and how I conduct myself. Not on the big things, like, obviously I would not be a serial killer if I didn't believe in God. But with the little things and just every day attitude, conduct, outlook on life and on other people, yes, I do try to follow the teachings and examples of Christ.

And yet you believe that an all-good God allows the rape of young children so that pedophiles can express their free will.  Do you deny this?  Yes or no?  God HAS the power to prevent the suffering of these innocents, but chooses not do prevent it.  Do you deny this?  Yes or no?

This ^^^

[Catholic_Lady]

I try to not allow myself to get emotionally involved in stuff that happens online, but I must admit this has been hard. It's not fun being accused of condoning or defending rape.

In the beginning of this thread, people were acting all scandalized because I said rape was objectively immoral. Now people are acting all scandalized because I believe in free will... which somehow translates to me defending rape? Come on, guys.

I also don't understand where all the outrage is coming from, since both these beliefs (belief in objective morality and belief in free will) are extremely basic principles among the vast majority of theists. Did you guys not know this?