My views on objective morality

[abaris]

Cathy is NOT a pet that needs protecting. I think that she's handled her own pretty damn well considering.

That's not the point. The point is people conflating what evengelicals believe with what mainstream catholics or protestants believe. Evangelicals, for the most part, take the bible very or totally literal, whereas mainstream christians don't put that much stock into it.

While I agree that the OT is abysmal in many places, it's as useless to confornt CL with it as asking Drippy for swearing allegiance to the pope. Catholics don't subscribe to the OT anymore. They don't throw it out of the window since the whole Jesus story wouldn't make much sense without it, but the contradiction behind it is another debate to be had.

Believe me, when going to catholic mass, it's very easy to ignore the horror show that makes up the OT. Sermons and readings are entirely based on the NT - as opposed to evangelical sermons, who put quite a lot of stock in hateful messages to frighten their parishoners.

[Whateverist]

If someone were fighting back, what you write could be interpreted as flaming and that would warrant moderation. In the absence of someone pushing back, it just looks like raw belligerence. We enjoy having a wide open forum but I for one wouldn't like to lose posters like CL just so we can have a forum where people are as rude as they want to be.

[Losty]

To be fair, this is a bit of a straw man. 

What I was saying is that God has His reasons for creating SEX, verses having us reproduce via stork or some other non sexual means. Even though sex can be used wrongly by us humans and thus can cause a lot of harm, I trust that God has seen everything (unlike myself) and that He has seen that the good that comes from sex far outweighs the bad that can come from it.

This is bullshit.  You're not answerable for how anyone feels about what they think your beliefs mean.  Sharing your beliefs or discussing them is a gift that you can bestow or withdraw at any time.  I know which I would do right now in your shoes.

While I agree with this, everyone else on this forum is also entitled to their own beliefs even if they disagree with CL and even if she thinks they're stated in a mean way.

I also think CL is nice outside of her religious beliefs which scare me a little. I also think she's very pretty. I also think she's fun in off topic threads.

And you can't for one second think anyone will fool me into believing that's not the only reason people come to her rescue when she bites off more than she can chew in a heated debate.

Half the people that get upset when CL gets her feelings hurt are people who say the same or even more horrible things to people like Drich and Huggy.

Yes CL is far more likeable than either of them, but it doesn't mean her opinions are not subject to criticism. And it doesn't mean people cannot be rude to her in their criticism. Such is the nature of a debate forum. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen and other such cliches.

[Losty]

Oh, come on Whateverist.  CL is a big girl.  She comes here at will and knows that her beliefs and motivations will be challenged.  And if she feels she's being misunderstood she is perfectly capable of clarifying herself.  There's no need to coddle.

Having my beliefs challenged is one thing. Being told "fuck you, you horrible horrible person" along with the annoying straws, is something entirely different. I'm grateful for Whateverist for coming to my defense. He's a friend, and one of the nicest people on this forum.

It's not something different. You believe that rape, in the grand scheme of things, is better off being allowed to happen or else God wouldn't allow it.
Rhythm believes that you are a horrible person and you should go fuck yourself.

I believe you're both wrong but he is just as entitled to post his beliefs as you are to post yours provided that they're his honest opinion and not him just trying to stir up shit.

You can't honestly think you wouldn't get backlash for this? I don't think you're a horrible person but I think you have horrible beliefs. Horrible sickening beliefs. As someone who has been raped countless times over a span of about 6 years, reading how you think your God is super great and he just lets that kind of stuff happen because he knows it's better for us in the long run is really awful and upsetting. It hits a raw nerve and o don't see how you could say something like that and not expect that some people would think you're awful for thinking it....

[Losty]

Here's my opinion about this, and I'll be blunt.

CL has an avatar of a cute girl with big jugs, and speaks like Pollyanna.  Several of the other posters in this thread have been especially kind to CL, and I think that it has a lot more to do with who they think she/he is than with the actual ideas.  I guarantee if she had MY portrait as her Avatar, you all would have taken great relish in tearing her/him a new one.  Shame on you guys for that.

Now, I have nothing against CL, and I'm happy to have religious people posting and making arguments.  This helps me refine my position, and is of great value.  However, this pick-and-choose relationship she has with her religion shows to me she's smart enough to realize that as a unified collection of philosophical ideas, it is completely incoherent.  The next step for her, I would hope, is to ask whether ANYTHING, other than a general sense of goodwill toward humanity, is coherent about the Catholic institution.

And if there's nothing there but vague optimism and goodwill toward others, I'd ask her this-- why not shed the mythology and just keep the values, in their purest, most human form-- her own desire to be a good person?

I have not picked and chosen any Catholic teachings. I accept and adhere to all of them. 

And as a woman, I find it pretty offensive that you're saying some people have been "niceish" to me only because of what I look like and the size of my chest, and not because of how I am as a person and how I have treated others here. (btw, I AM a she. You can ask that to one of the 10 forum members I have video skyped with, including KingPin, Tiberious, Whateverist, Losty, Poca, and others).  

To answer your question, I won't give up my beliefs because they are what I honestly believe to be the truth. And contrary to popular belief around here, they actually DO shape who I am and how I conduct myself. Not on the big things, like, obviously I would not be a serial killer if I didn't believe in God. But with the little things and just every day attitude, conduct, outlook on life and on other people, yes, I do try to follow the teachings and examples of Christ.

I will attest that you are a woman and despite your religious beliefs or maybe with an exception to them, I think you're a good person. Certainly a nice person. I think sometimes you think because they're you're religious beliefs means it's ok that they can be extremely hurtful to other people. Not everyone else agrees with that.

I don't ever want you to mistakenly think I don't like you. Because I do like you. I just think that if you can't handle a debate you shouldn't start one.

[Whateverist]

Yes CL is far more likeable than either of them, but it doesn't mean her opinions are not subject to criticism. And it doesn't mean people cannot be rude to her in their criticism. Such is the nature of a debate forum.

I just question whether this is first and foremost a debate forum. I think there is a special sub-forum for debate. But I don't know that it is the go-to format for all interaction here. Personally I loath debate as such. Give me good old open conversation any day of the week. But gratuitous rudeness .. well, I guess that is just the price we pay for open conversation. Not a bad bargain really.

[Losty]

Yes CL is far more likeable than either of them, but it doesn't mean her opinions are not subject to criticism. And it doesn't mean people cannot be rude to her in their criticism. Such is the nature of a debate forum.

I just question whether this is first and foremost a debate forum.  I think there is a special sub-forum for debate.  But I don't know that it is the go-to format for all interaction here.  Personally I loath debate as such.  Give me good old open conversation any day of the week.  But gratuitous rudeness .. well, I guess that is just the price we pay for open conversation.  Not a bad bargain really.

That's not what the question is. That's the whole thing that bothers me. It's well established that so long as you're participating in an actual discussion you don't have to be nice and you're allowed to use swear words. (Should you? Have people gone too far? Probably but it's not the point because outlawing meanness would ruin the forum).

The real question is, is it ok to ignore the same (and often worse) treatment of other people in heated debates and only come to the defense of people you really like? I say no.

[abaris]

But gratuitous rudeness .. well, I guess that is just the price we pay for open conversation.

Some call for it, since one is only human and there's only so much bullshit one can swallow before vomiting. CL doesn't fall into that category.

[Losty]

But gratuitous rudeness .. well, I guess that is just the price we pay for open conversation.

Some call for it, since one is only human and there's only so much bullshit one can swallow before vomiting. CL doesn't fall into that category.

She doesn't fall into that category for me, but clearly she does for some people. Rik also doesn't fall into that category for me but I have never seen a single person come to his defense in a debate when people are being really mean to him.

[abaris]

Rik also doesn't fall into that category for me but I have never seen a single person come to his defense in a debate when people are being really mean to him.

That would be because some people fall into the ignore completey category. Not because I have them physically on ignore, but because I know there's nothing of interest to find if there's a certain alias attached. Some go into a heated debate with them, most probably think the same as I do.

Rik certainly falls into that category. I hardly ever look at what he's posting.