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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 2, 2016 at 9:22 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 9:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Interference isn't the issue. If the future -can be known- it is set. Free will is thus, illusory. You can make no other choice than the one that you will inevitably make.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 2, 2016 at 10:46 pm
But did the mouse truly have free will or just the illusion of it?
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 2, 2016 at 10:54 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 10:55 pm by Aroura.)
All life is sacred. Please pass the bacon.
Edited to add this is directed at the op, not any discussion following it.
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 3, 2016 at 1:18 am
I abhor the feeling, but I do have sports rituals that I really believed in.
I used to wear the same arm band for football, tie my shoes in the same order, put my uniform on with a specific process, put eye black on with my helmet on. My locker mate and I had a pysch out ritual that we did right before we went on the field.
I know it didn't do anything really, but I truly believed I needed to do it to have a good game.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 3, 2016 at 2:21 am
(March 2, 2016 at 9:11 pm)AJW333 Wrote: I'd like to offer an explanation for this one;
3A) God knows everything we're going do to, before we do it, because he knows everything.
3B) We are free to make genuine choices.
Let's say I had a mouse that could find its way to the centre of a maze where there was a piece of cheese. I could observe that mouse make free-will decisions to turn left or right as he goes. Now even though I know exactly which way he will turn, I am in no way interfering with his free will.
How do you know which way he will turn, if he hasn't decided yet? How do you know he won't just sit there and do nothing?
If this information is available before it has happened, then the mouse cannot make any other choice.
Let's say I genuinely know what you're going to do in the next ten minutes, and I then tell you that information, in detail. Can you choose to do anything differently from what I've told you?
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 4, 2016 at 1:12 am
(March 3, 2016 at 2:21 am)robvalue Wrote: (March 2, 2016 at 9:11 pm)AJW333 Wrote: I'd like to offer an explanation for this one;
3A) God knows everything we're going do to, before we do it, because he knows everything.
3B) We are free to make genuine choices.
Let's say I had a mouse that could find its way to the centre of a maze where there was a piece of cheese. I could observe that mouse make free-will decisions to turn left or right as he goes. Now even though I know exactly which way he will turn, I am in no way interfering with his free will.
How do you know which way he will turn, if he hasn't decided yet? How do you know he won't just sit there and do nothing? Point taken. I as a human being don't know absolutely what he will do.
(March 3, 2016 at 2:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If this information is available before it has happened, then the mouse cannot make any other choice. I don't see how this follows. Just because a third party (ie God) knows what an individual will chose, how does that deny them the ability to make the choice?
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 4, 2016 at 1:20 am
Having a choice means being able to choose differently than what someone already knows will happen. If something is preordained due to an individual's knowledge that it will happen, then there can be no choice involved. It will happen that way no matter what. If the concept of choice was an option, then the individual with the knowledge of what is going to happen would discover himself being wrong due to real choice having been in play.
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 4, 2016 at 1:21 am
It's not really a choice if the choice is already made.
It's not a choice, if it was programmed.
If the god made me exactly like I am, all the characteristics that define me, he knew everything I would go through in my life and knew how it would shape me up until the moment I choose to break a bottle on my neighbor's head... did I really choose it? Was I rather programmed to do it? Everything that I am, everything prior to that moment determined the decision I would make. The god allowed it, knew it. He fucken sketched it, ey? How is it a choice?
If you put a mouse in a one way street, the mouse runs down the only way there is, it's not a choice, dude.
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 4, 2016 at 2:03 am
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2016 at 2:11 am by robvalue.)
AJW: I also said this, as a demonstration of how the existence of knowledge of the future removes choice:
Quote:Let's say I genuinely know what you're going to do in the next ten minutes, and I then tell you that information, in detail. Can you choose to do anything differently from what I've told you?
Indeed mamacita. God could have made me, and the universe, any way he wanted. He could have produced any outcome, at any point in my life. So he literally chose every single thing that happens, because he could have picked something different.
How anyone can then claim I actually have free will, and am choosing to do the things God chose I would do is unbelievable scapegoating nonsense.
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RE: Cognitive dissonance
March 7, 2016 at 3:24 am
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