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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 7, 2016 at 3:27 pm
(March 6, 2016 at 4:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (March 6, 2016 at 4:02 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Not at all.
As I pointed out in my reply to you back in post #55, having honest back and forth discussions on theist forums as an atheist is next to impossible, since banning is almost inevitable for doing nothing more than pointing out flaws in theist's arguments.
Since theists get banned a lot less on atheist forums, discussing theism with theists on an atheist forum seems to be the best option.
Fair enough. Nonetheless, forums aren't the only place to look for answers to something you want to gather info on. If you have a questions to theists about theism, an atheist forum still seems like a counter productive place to look for those answers, imho. You can take out books, do research online, call a church and ask if the pastor is open to meeting with you and answering questions, etc. Any of those seem like better options than an atheist forum. If you disagree with that, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I just talked to Whateverist. He said he's been spending a lot of time on a Theist forum called Reasonable Faith. If you are respectful and genuine, they will not ban you for discussing theism as an atheist. I also know Catholic Answers Forum won't either. I'm sure there are more out there, but those are the 2 I know about, in case anyone wants to ask questions and get answers from more than the 4ish active theists on this forum lol.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 7, 2016 at 4:20 pm
(March 6, 2016 at 4:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (March 6, 2016 at 4:02 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Not at all.
As I pointed out in my reply to you back in post #55, having honest back and forth discussions on theist forums as an atheist is next to impossible, since banning is almost inevitable for doing nothing more than pointing out flaws in theist's arguments.
Since theists get banned a lot less on atheist forums, discussing theism with theists on an atheist forum seems to be the best option.
Fair enough. Nonetheless, forums aren't the only place to look for answers to something you want to gather info on. If you have a questions to theists about theism, an atheist forum still seems like a counter productive place to look for those answers, imho. You can take out books, do research online, call a church and ask if the pastor is open to meeting with you and answering questions, etc. Any of those seem like better options than an atheist forum. If you disagree with that, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I have done extensive research on the subject. My knowledge of various flavors of god beliefs is better than most theists.
I do not need answers to questions by pastors. I have heard pretty much every form of apologetics there are. I have instant access to any question I can think of.
What I do want, and the primary reasons why I engage with theists, is to discern if there are justifiable reasons to believe that a god exists.
One of my main motivations is to have as many true beliefs as possible, and as few false beliefs. I want my internal model of the universe to map as closely as possible to the actual universe. If a god actually exists, I want to know about it.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 7, 2016 at 4:20 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 3:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (March 6, 2016 at 4:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Fair enough. Nonetheless, forums aren't the only place to look for answers to something you want to gather info on. If you have a questions to theists about theism, an atheist forum still seems like a counter productive place to look for those answers, imho. You can take out books, do research online, call a church and ask if the pastor is open to meeting with you and answering questions, etc. Any of those seem like better options than an atheist forum. If you disagree with that, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I just talked to Whateverist. He said he's been spending a lot of time on a Theist forum called Reasonable Faith. If you are respectful and genuine, they will not ban you for discussing theism as an atheist. I also know Catholic Answers Forum won't either. I'm sure there are more out there, but those are the 2 I know about, in case anyone wants to ask questions and get answers from more than the 4ish active theists on this forum lol.
Thank you!
I will give them a try.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 7:23 am
Come now with your violent atheism, GeneralDog!
The proof for your God, is that there are only 3 epistemological view points:
Theism: The belief in a God.
Agnosticism: The not knowing if God exists or not.
Atheism: The disbelief in God.
There are no wrong answers, however, only one is correct. You decide, my dear friend, which one that is. I will give you a little hint: it is not atheism.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 7:35 am
What about Ignosticism?
Explain and Describe what God is first before we can comment.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 7:44 am
I thank God every day friend; that you cannot comment. Amen.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 9:17 am
Theism: having a belief in god(s)
Gnosticism: professing knowledge of god(s)
Agnosticism: not professing knowledge of god(s)
Atheism: not having a belief in god(s)
Atheism = not theism
Agnosticism = not Gnosticism
Really, why is this such a problem for some?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 10:16 am
I will see how the "reasonablefaith.org" works out but for now it seems to me to be the ONE question that should put an end to all others.
Only with undeniable proof that stacks up with physical evidence can the god hypothesis be made fact.
It is the same with aliens. Yes the math says there should be life out there but so far we have nothing but drakes equation.
I for one feel the math is good but in the end no one has a specimen in hand of such an E.T.
I also know also that our understanding of the universe is limited. With that in mind I am willing to change my views with the facts presented.
The usual argument I get is "God wont go about proving himself because A). he does not feel the need to. B). By doing so God would take away our free choice to chose him or not. C) This life is a only a test to see if you will believe with 0 evidence in him so that you can earn heaven and avoid hell.
All of which to the scientific and military mind amounts to excuses for lack of evidence.
As for the evidence against God, Rob had really good points and the only one i can add is that I have yet to see a divine action come from a human that could not have been done by a non-believer. Even that is not original by me. That point is brought up by Christipher Hitchens. So far no one has been able to counter it.
I don't see any one religious set of people being better (moral actions) as a whole due to some divine force.
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 17, 2016 at 12:01 pm
Serious question: why do we indulge this idiot? I mean, it's the same thing with him. Bunch of gibberish, plus the same long post about being directly related to god/Jesus/whatever the fuck he must have saved as a document so he can copypasta it every couple of months.
He's not a funny troll. The act wears thin really fast. I'm not saying ban him (although he would be banned on the vast majority of forums I visit), but why engage at all? For my money, there's no entertainment here, just more threads to avoid.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: Please give me evidence for God.
March 19, 2016 at 3:35 pm
(March 3, 2016 at 1:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: Yeah...
The tendency for a lot of theists (not all) to shut down questions is not encouraging. The truth doesn't need protecting.
That wasn't my experience.... the group I was in previously really enjoyed questions.
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