Teach children about Jesus at a young age,

[Chad32]

If your message was true, and could be easily proven, it shouldn't matter what age people are taught about it. Since it isn't, you have to get them when they're the most vulnerable. Most adult converts are because they hit rock bottom in life, and were willing to take any help to get out. even if there was an ulterior motive. Or because of threats of violence. Can't forget that. There are exceptions, but this is the rule.

[Huggy Bear]

Bad analogy.

I don't know where you're from but I never needed driving lessons, you got a learners permit at 14 and kind of learned through experience.

UK. And that's a red herring.

And is my analogy bad just because you say so, or are you going to tell the class why, like I did with yours?

I did say why.

Analogy time.

As most of you know, I'm taking driving lessons. The philosophy behind them is learning how and why things happen. This means that I should end up able to evaluate situations autonomously and know how to think for myself. If the lessons consisted merely of learning the rules of the road and which control does what, how does that make me a driver as opposed to simply being able to move a car around, however safely? What happens when I come across something that wasn't covered in the lessons?

*emphasis mine*

Your analogy implies that everyone needs to take driving lessons in order to be a safe driver, this is not the case, here you are given a learners permit and you learned (with the help of a licensed adult) by doing it yourself.

If your analogy of driving lessons = life lessons, then one cannot be taught life lessons, one must experience life and learn for themselves.

My father tried to explain things to me, but guess what it just went in one ear and out the other, now that I'm an adult, I get what he was trying to tell me.

The same with church, I went to church as a child, that too went in one ear and out the other for the most part. I stopped going to church for a long time, not because I stopped believing in God, but because I was too busy acting a fool; Now I get what I was being told all that time.

No one finds God... God finds you.

[Ben Davis]

First of all, provide an example of that ever producing loving children then you just might have a point...

Irrelevant. If you really think that the reason why someone might be loving doesn't matter, you can't differentiate between ethical/unethical methods. Your perspective on indoctrination must be ignored therefore on moral grounds because this is a moral question. Further, you can't differentiate between someone who is pretending to be loving in order to avoid an undesirable outcome and someone who is actually loving as you have no understanding of their motivations.

[Cyberman]

Actually, Huggy, the analogy wasn't that everyone needs lessons to be a safe driver - I even mentioned that in the analogy - but that being educated in how and why things work beats being indoctrinated with a list of diktat pronouncements even if those pronouncements are perfectly valid. There's even a reference in your special book about teaching a man to fish, such that he knows how to feed himself.

[Huggy Bear]

First of all, provide an example of that ever producing loving children then you just might have a point...

Irrelevant. If you really think that the reason why someone might be loving doesn't matter, you can't differentiate between ethical/unethical methods. Your perspective on indoctrination must be ignored therefore on moral grounds because this is a moral question. Further, you can't differentiate between someone who is pretending to be loving in order to avoid an undesirable outcome and someone who is actually loving as you have no understanding of their motivations.

It IS relevant, show me any known unethical methods that result in making someone a "loving person". If they don't exist then your point is moot.


ponder this for a second:

"what if setting a child on fire makes them a loving person?". See how stupid that sounds?

So produce a plausible example then I'll take you seriously.

[Huggy Bear]

Actually, Huggy, the analogy wasn't that everyone needs lessons to be a safe driver - I even mentioned that in the analogy - but that being educated in how and why things work beats being indoctrinated with a list of diktat pronouncements even if those pronouncements are perfectly valid. There's even a reference in your special book about teaching a man to fish, such that he knows how to feed himself.

Your problem is assuming that a person of faith is opposed to education...

[The Grand Nudger]

One hardly needs to make the assumption when people of faith provide ample opportunity for observation of -precisely- that.

[Huggy Bear]

One hardly needs to make the assumption when people of faith provide ample opportunity for observation of -precisely- that.

Yes, and they tend to be referred to as extremists, which can be religious or atheist.

There is absolutely no reason one can't benefit from both education AND spirituality.

[Minimalist]

You're being willfully dense, aren't you? 

Common among religitards.

[Huggy Bear]

You're being willfully dense, aren't you? 

Common among religitards.

shall I put your idiocy on blast?