Teach children about Jesus at a young age,

[Bob Kelso]

You're being willfully dense, aren't you? 

Really?

If the ideology a person is being "indoctrinated" into results in that person being as Stimbo puts it, "good and kind and loving"... I don't have a problem with that, no matter what religion they belonged to.

If Nazi indoctrination resulted in "good and kind and loving" Nazi's, no one would've had a problem with them.

The fact that you guys turn being a "loving" person into a bad thing is what's telling about the atheist "doctrine".

Yes, really, and I'm more than happy to get into why I think -and snarkily told you- that. 

Indoctrination? please, Since when is teaching a child to love their fellow man indoctrination?

Your incredulous starting point skips over what indoctrination is. I'll supply you with the definition:

• Indoctrination: teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically
  

Notice the highlighted bits, read it twice if you need to. Teaching a small child to love through the Christian belief system, whether you think it's good or otherwise, is still indoctrination. You're still inundating a small, largely indefensible, mind with your religious hogwash and forcing them to process the world through the lens of Christianity.

That aside, let's cut the shit while we're at it; the Christian belief system cannot simply be boiled down to the golden rule -as if it isn't a staple in most belief systems religious or otherwise- and you are assuredly aware of that as a Christian yourself. I'm not speaking for you, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Can you get to heaven through love for your neighbor, or do you have to wholeheartedly believe in woo while you're at it? 

Twit.

[robvalue]

I just hate this. (as if I didn't already know the answer) what do religious people fear in letting their children reach an age of critical thought before teaching them about their religion? And not seven like I think the Catholic Church suggests, but an age of real critical thought... adulthood. I wonder what the world would be like if religious education was not allowed until say 18... a very different and much better place. Any earlier than that and it's not a real choice to believe but just the natural trusting and impressionable nature of children. And it makes my blood boil to hear stories, like Judi's, of young kids being told they're going to hell... seeming to forget that children naturally have very vivid imaginations, much more vivid perhaps than any adult.

18? That would be it. Done and dusted. No one is going to be able to convert an 18 year old who hasn't had any one lean on them about religious dogma. Well, it would be very rare anyway.

They would still have the advantage that society is saturated with mythology though. That's the good thing about England, we've reached the tipping point where this is no longer the case. Jesus isn't everywhere. He's hardly anywhere, in fact. So unless you get indoctrinated, it is generally viewed as a dumb story.

I totally agree. Telling a young child about hell is one of the most vile, disgusting things I could imagine. Talk about a parenting short cut.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Yeah Huggy, I get it. You said there were no rules and then said there were some rules.

If you need to post a few more times to clarify to everyone how that works be my guest. We don't mind.

If you need any help please let us all know. You can look up how to spell contradiction on Google.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

[robvalue]

I've found Christians, on the whole, know jack shit about the historicity of the bible.

You should really steer clear of Matthew. He is plain bonkers, even amongst the already high standard of his peers.

I can understand why they don't know. Asking questions like, "Who wrote this? When? Why? What were their sources? How was this compiled? How reliable is it?" is rather like asking "How does Santa get to every child in one night?". To keep the magic alive, you need as little reliable information as possible.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Ignorance is bliss, Rob.

When you've cocooned yourself in a bubble of denial, it must be hard to realise that the only person you're deceiving is yourself.

[robvalue]

Yeah, very true.

I've been in bubbles as well, of various kinds. Living with a semi-delusion. For example, really bad relationships I've been in. Everyone around me was telling me the plain and obvious facts, but I wouldn't listen. I knew best. Until we broke up, and I looked back on how my mind had been clouded with much embarressment.

So I do have a tiny idea what it might be like. But with something so fundamental, I can't really imagine the extreme pressure the mind puts on itself to maintain the status quo of beliefs. One more (possibly subconscious) lie to the self is far easier than considering you might actually have been very wrong, for a very long time.

[Huggy Bear]

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Yeah, very true.

I've been in bubbles as well, of various kinds. Living with a semi-delusion. For example, really bad relationships I've been in. Everyone around me was telling me the plain and obvious facts, but I wouldn't listen. I knew best. Until we broke up, and I looked back on how my mind had been clouded with much embarressment.

So I do have a tiny idea what it might be like. But with something so fundamental, I can't really imagine the extreme pressure the mind puts on itself to maintain the status quo of beliefs. One more (possibly subconscious) lie to the self is far easier than considering you might actually have been very wrong, for a very long time.

I think it's probably more due to the sheer length of indoctrination and the level of pressure, combined with, as you say, the consequences (imagined) of not believing.

The sheer number of qualifiers, dogmas and rules either imposed by others or self imposed eventually just takes its toll I guess. The freedom to believe what you want is taken away from you, and even when you begin to break through those restrictions, the consequential aspect of the belief eventually weigh you down.

I'm lucky enough to have never been indoctrinated, so in those terms I can't really empathize.

[robvalue]

Yes, me too.

I feel so sorry for people who have. They have been failed.