War crimes of the west

[Brian37]

I'll admit there are some crazy characters here, though not many, that do need educating on how the West has negatively influenced Arabia. But I won't name names as there is a degree of subjectivity involved. The video of George W. Bush kissing Saudi royalty is so telling. They allow al-Saud to spread their hate precisely because they have such a blinding hatred of such things as Socialism and Communism, and to keep secular Arab governments in check. They want to subvert Syria to make Russia and Iran weaker and will stop at nothing.

It's pretty much a historical fact; a big flaw is there in one's system if they ignored the domino effect: if one group of humans did bad (the first domino), if it weighed heavily enough, is going to take down the whole rest; falling just like the first did.

Arabs look up to westerners, and not seeing that is just -to me- an act of ignoring history and obvious observation. 





As you described it: it is weird for people to say that the west has no influence (not even the slightest). But subjectivity and dependence of thought is indeed a red line.

cato

I prefer the UN's pedo rape stories:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world.../80057004/

ISIS is bad and all, but honestly I do believe its a western/zionist project, executed through Arab men and lots of Mossad agents who know how to copy cat Muslims.

Brian37

Again, the idea of religion itself is the root cause. It isn't that you can rid the world of it by force, but more inso that humans don't want to face the fact that it causes humans to be divided. It still remains however, when you compare the East to the West we still do a much better job keeping different religions civil. 

Everything should be put under judgement so we validate things correctly, I believe that a perfect religion would survive criticism though -by itself-, and find its way into people's hearts. The biggest sign of weakness is what many Muslims do at the slightest criticism (Charlie Hebdo being my example). There is a broad and wide standards that ensure the individual's freedoms, I totally agree on following such a doctrine, but people will always be divided. Especially if freedom was guaranteed. I do believe though, that Islam is one of the fewest religions that keep this freedom for all through its commands.

Human cruelty is not a patent owned by one label, no. And no religion in the world deserves to be scrutiny free, not Jews not Christians not Islam, not even atheist(not a religion, but still).  

Exactly.

Our species evolved to form groups, and unfortunately we attach labels that really amount to nothing more than excuses to gain control over our environments. Safety in numbers allows our species to have more opportunity at resources and more opportunity at producing offspring. The problem with ALL religions worldwide is this mundane reality gets turned into a comic book reflection of what we do naturally, and our species ignorance of this allows us to treat the "other" as a sub species.

Now again having said that, instead of asking for the same protection you say Jews have, what we should all value is common law in that of non violence and arrest anyone of any label when they incite violence. But again, that is a matter of local secular law, global politics is much more difficult but still needs to work more to those ends.

That's the fine we pay for being "social" since birth. We always need a "gang", a "group of friends"; a "family", then it becomes "us and them", then it becomes "it's either us or them". We must regulate this instinct or it will eat the good side in us; turning it into a racist side.
My comment about Jews was sarcastic. Freedom and protection -as you said- must be given to everybody; I have nothing against that. Actually, I'm ordered by my God not to interfere with what people do unless they hurt me. That concept is in the core of Islam.

It still remains there is far less freedom in the East even between Sunnis and Shiites, which is just as bad and oppressive as Kim Jong Un. The fact you are here making this post without fear of anyone here is testimony of the value of an open society. There is no polite way to say that the East simply is nowhere near as open. 

Nobody should deny the needless deaths the Iraq war caused. Nobody should deny the bigotry our right wingers sell. Nobody should deny the holocaust or the genocide of Native Americans or Slavery. But again, you still have it better living in the west than you would in far to much of the middle east. Atheists and gays and Christians and minority Muslims depending where they are stuck in the East have much more to fear than those living in the west. 

Never claimed the opposite. The sykes-picot states (precisely) are gulags where nobody has the freedom to even scratch, have no personalities, no "self awareness", ignorance is being forced as a legitimate substitute for knowledge, but are we like that, or is there somebody who did this to us? we allowed it to happen , but the foreign policy that brought the sad consequence, is guilty indeed. The east did not become like this on its own, I just try to draw the map with all the crossroads.

But yeah, the west is more advanced than the eastern WW1 scene -which was successfully occupied and totally followed western political example-. Western domination should've treated us nice, but secularism -that looks like Hillary Clinton's smile- didn't play us fair; I know you don't agree on it Brian, but the scene of squished infant that died with his family, because a military prick wanted to be a money spoon for a fat boss..that's pretty bad, and does make me open this door because knowing the past makes you unlock the future.

In the west while we have the right to pick on anything and everything and each other, we don't get to be a mob rule. The East still has not caught up with the west politically in this concept of government neutrality. AGAIN that does not give Israel a pass, they've done some shitty things too. But not because they are Jews. Islamic states have supported shitty things. And America has done shitty things. 

It isn't that humans are incapable of compassion, it is that we are far too tribal and local and we don't understand that we are the same species and that the earth is the only home all 7 billion of us have.

In each pile of shit, we have to identify who shitted the pile, and who -sadly- caught its smell or..stain; i.e identify the victim and the guilty suspect, and respond with everything we can do; for the tragedy never come to be again.
Despite our tribe or faith. 

ATLAS damn it, you act as if America is the only who invests in the global weapons industry. Islamic states do as well. I don't like it any more than you do, but there are also pictures of Bush with The Saudi Royal family too. But the Saudis have armies and tanks and Jets too and their family owns oil companies too. Those who control the resources can afford the weapons to protect the resources.

You really need to STOP treating entire labels as your enemy and start treating INDIVIDUAL humans as individuals. You are NOT wrong about your complaints of the west. BUT AGAIN, stop acting like Islamic states are bastions of pluralism and tolerance. They are STILL socially far too widely stuck 500 years in the past socially. 

There was an Iranian who is now an atheist I met her on twitter whose brother was killed in the Iraq/Iran war because of OUR support. It sucks to know humans get to the point of war. I felt very sorry for her as any decent human would. 

But again, that sill does not change that Iran is a theocracy where at best, you keep your mouth shut if you don't agree with the government or the majority religion. 

The world need more voices, not more violence. I can only speak from my side, but it would really help the west if more in Islam, would raise their voices too. I know they exist, I've been on line for 15 years. But believe me, we fight our bigots on this end all the time. It may be hard for you to see, but we do. 

A human is a human is a human, and the more people think in terms of that instead of religion, skin color or nationality, th more civil the world can be.

[Brian37]

It did prevent ancient Arabs from burying little girls; though.
I's your inner peace, and ultimate peace of mind.

Sure, except that it didn't.  You seem to have forgotten, if you ever knew, that your religion is the product of one of the most impressive imperial military expansions in history.  That Umma of Old you fantasize about was brutal, ruthless, and efficient.

This is one repetitive argument which is not wrong, but not in context of the totality of all of antiquity.

First off, Islam is the 3rd in the Abraham line of religions, not the first, so they were not the first to incorporate the idea of girls/women/children, being the property of the male head of the family.

Secondly, sexism and bartering of girls/women was wide spread in most of antiquity including polytheism. Even today certain sects of Hindu and Sikh value the idea of pre arranged marriage. Warren Jeffs was arrested for child abuse. All of that is religious based sexism. 

You can only argue that the Middle East, is simply more stuck in it's own dark ages socially and gender wise than the rest of the world. But Islam did not invent sexism.

Mary if she had been real, which she was not, but if she had been real would have been bartered off between the ages of n 9  and 14 most likely. The medical reality back then for all of antiquity was the mortality rate was much higher so it was more important for humans to reproduce as quickly as possible.

The America's both North and South average between 16-18 but remember neither North, Central or South America are NOT Islamic states, and some of those CHRISTIAN countries have ages as low as 14. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co...th_America

And even America has varied laws and even 16 was not the lowest going back far enough. 

This famous pop singer married his 13 year old once removed cousin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY