The origin of biology

[LadyForCamus]

mathematics. logic.

Are claiming that mathematics and logic are supernatural?

Please explain...

Oh, let him!  I'm just dying to see where he'll go with it.

[truth_seeker]

mathematics. logic.

Are claiming that mathematics and logic are supernatural?

Please explain...

@LadyCamus, I'm glad you're enjoying this

@Simon.
Sure. I'll explain it below.

We agreed (myself and you, Simon) on the following definition of supernatural:

supernatural (or metaphysical, if you want) simply means a concept that exists outside the physical world.

concepts of mathematics (e.g. the mental concept of a differential equation, etc) exists outside the physical world. It exists even if you remove this entire world. Ergo, its a supernatural concept (as per the above definition).

[The Grand Nudger]

Mmm. There is a difference between a speculation, and a fact. The former is not supported by solid evidence. The latter is.

-and?

The nature of the origin of life will affect atheism. If it turns out to be super-natural, then that creates a problem for a naturalistic worldview, which is by far one of the strongest assumptions in atheism.

Atheism isn't about assumptions, or the supernatural.  Atheists don't believe in gods.  
-Full....stop-

If it turned out that gnomes took a magical shit and out popped life....not a problem for atheism. Understand?

[Mudhammam]

Hello everyone

Hope you're having a great day!


There is currently no evidence-based scientific explanation for the origin of life. There is, however, a few potential speculations (e.g. RNA world theory, clay hypothesis, self-replication, etc).

Since there is no conclusive evidence for its origin, wouldn't the statement that ("life is only a natural phenomenon") be simply a belief?

How can an atheist claim that their world-view is based on evidence?

Doesn't this, at the very least, makes it simply equally possible for life to be either a natural or a super-natural phenomenon?

Now if someone chooses to reject the possibility of the super-natural because they don't like the idea of a super-natural being, then that's fine. But that can't be called evidence.

And what's the connection between the natural order and this "supernatural" one which you hint "might" just be responsible for life? What would the overarching order relating these two realms be called? The super-super-natural power? And what relates the super-super-natural power to the supernatural cause, which is related to the natural world through the super-super-natural power? A super-super-super natural power? Nah, I think I'll simply stick with "natural" causality so long as I have every reason to do so and nothing to suggest otherwise.

[LadyForCamus]

Where did you go, Truth? Funny that you're happy to spew oral diarrhea all over the place but as soon as you're asked to define your beliefs you've suddenly got marbles in your mouth.

[Mister Agenda]

Way to miss my point entirely, lol.  You're fun.

No where in my post did I mention god.

I was specifically discussing the possibility of natural and the possibility of super-natural explanations.

Then it doesn't have anything at all to do with atheism.

[Mister Agenda]

I'm still really looking for a peer reviewed replicated experiment that was able to recreate abiogenensis in vitro.
If somebody can provide that to support the claim that abiogenensis is a fact, I will be very thankful and will retract all my statements.

Who asserted that abiogenesis was a fact?

[Mister Agenda]

Are claiming that mathematics and logic are supernatural?

Please explain...

@LadyCamus, I'm glad you're enjoying this

@Simon.
Sure. I'll explain it below.

We agreed (myself and you, Simon) on the following definition of supernatural:

supernatural (or metaphysical, if you want) simply means a concept that exists outside the physical world.

concepts of mathematics (e.g. the mental concept of a differential equation, etc) exists outside the physical world. It exists even if you remove this entire world. Ergo, its a supernatural concept (as per the above definition).

Mathematics is a method we use to describe things. We invented it. It's an abstraction that requires some kind of physical process to happen. It doesn't exist if you remove every object capable of mathematical abstraction or processing. You're claiming the map is more essential than the territory.

[LadyForCamus]

I'm still really looking for a peer reviewed replicated experiment that was able to recreate abiogenensis in vitro.
If somebody can provide that to support the claim that abiogenensis is a fact, I will be very thankful and will retract all my statements.

Who asserted that abiogenesis was a fact?

Can't...see...through...all the straw! *waves arms frantically*

[Nay_Sayer]

Hello everyone

Hope you're having a great day!


There is currently no evidence-based scientific explanation for the origin of life. There is, however, a few potential speculations (e.g. RNA world theory, clay hypothesis, self-replication, etc).

Since there is no conclusive evidence for its origin, wouldn't the statement that ("life is only a natural phenomenon") be simply a belief?

How can an atheist claim that their world-view is based on evidence?

Doesn't this, at the very least, makes it simply equally possible for life to be either a natural or a super-natural phenomenon?

Now if someone chooses to reject the possibility of the super-natural because they don't like the idea of a super-natural being, then that's fine. But that can't be called evidence.

Have you considered the following?

Checkmate.