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this just blew me away
#21
RE: this just blew me away
I find it amusing that the underlying assumption is that people believe in God as a result of serious consideration of available evidence instead of the usual route of indoctrination. I'm sure this will now be dismissed because I lack a certain qualification.
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#22
RE: this just blew me away
(March 31, 2016 at 6:16 am)Aractus Wrote: I never made an argument from authority. What I said remains valid. Most atheists quote from sources that are not of the quality they expect Christians or other theists to quote from.

Carefully reading your original post again, I agree that you didn't really make it, though I find it easy to misunderstand. So I was somewhat barking up the wrong tree.
But I notice that all this misses the elephant in the room, namely that you seem to think the ludicrous shift of the burden of proof quoted in the OP ("Show me the NON-evidence!", to quote a great Zak Penn/Werner Herzog film) is justified because many atheists in the past have made bad arguments.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#23
RE: this just blew me away
Well obviously they can't prove a negative, but they can prove what mythology is, can prove what the historical record says, can prove an evolutionary system, can prove the world is older than 6,000 years, etc. From there you can show other things that historians expect. I'll give two examples here - firstly historians, especially those that specialise in the Roman Empire, expect that it would be highly unlikely that the Jews could direct Pilate (or other Roman governors) to execute people for them.

Secondly, they expect that to the Romans Jesus was a nobody and therefore don't expect to find a record of him by the Romans. Now on this second point I've heard atheists try to claim time after time that the Romans should have written something about Jesus. To them he was just this guy that was causing trouble, causing unrest - the key example is when he enters the Temple and turns over the tables and chairs of the merchants in a fit of rage and accuses them of being robbers. The Roman authorities if they were told of this, what historians expect they would do is take action. They can't afford to have this guy come back to the Jew's holy place again and cause more trouble. Next time he does it it might be more violent - who's to know? They didn't care who he was, they just knew that he was upsetting peace and order in Jerusalem, and that they wanted to preserve/restore peace and order.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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#24
RE: this just blew me away
(March 31, 2016 at 6:06 am)Aractus Wrote: My whole point is that's what they should be doing.
Why?

Quote:But most refuse to do so.

It's completely contradictory to expect others to use a higher level of evidence to the one you are using.
It's impossible to determine whether or not an unspoken claim or argument is contradictory, but it hardly matters...as this is a vacuum TQ defense of criticism.  Meaningless and irrational.

I see we've gone from "never"..to "most"...and I expect we'll soon see "some"...and then "a few".  Finally terminating in "those I've spoken with" - at which point the search function -still- exists.
Dodgy
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#25
RE: this just blew me away
the whole point of the thread I was going through on the other forum was "showing positive evidence for atheism instead of attacking evidence for God." It sounds to me like they dont want the defend their position anymore and want the atheist to assert a world view. as far as i know the atheist doesnt assert anything that can't be backed up by firm science. any thing beyond that is a firm "I dont know."
am i wrong?
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#26
RE: this just blew me away
Strictly speaking, yes.  An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in god, full stop.  Science - different subject.  Knowledge - different subject.  Some atheists have requirements of knowledge, some atheists prefer scientific explanations over magical explanations.  Neither are required, and neither can be extrapolated to atheism in the general. There is no requirement of reason, proof, or evidence in atheism whatsoever. It's a single line item in a vacuum;

"Do you believe in gods, check yes or no"

-Atheists can believe or even claim as fact- ghosts, divination, curses, hexes, cantrips and boogeymen. Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, aliens (from spaaaaaaace), and vast NWO conspiracies.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#27
RE: this just blew me away
really? and here I was thinking that there had to be at least some disipline to the atheist view or the much older theist view would just wipe it out.
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#28
RE: this just blew me away
Of course the theist belief would wipe out undisciplined atheist unbelief if the theist belief had anything believable within it at all.
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