How hard do you have to pray....

[Little lunch]

I just have to say, Mystic Knight, you seem like a nice guy.
I've always thought that. :-)
As opposed to Drich, who seems like a nasty individual and probably would be whether he was a believer or not.

[Mystic]

I just have to say, Mystic Knight, you seem like a nice guy.
I've always thought that. :-)
As opposed to Drich, who seems like a nasty individual and probably would be whether he was a believer or not.

Thanks for your kind words. 

I think one of the greatest things that happened to me which I see as a grace from God, is that I became non-Muslim for a period. The thing is I didn't really have faith in Islam until I become mentally ill, then it was irrational type belief that was somewhat based on rational perspective but over all lacked critical thinking.

I think the period when I was a Deist made me realize something about myself, other humans, and God.  I think disbelief in religion can be good, because, it makes you leave most of what is ugly even though you may leave a lot of good from religion.

That said, I think if Drich became non-religious believing in God, it would do him a lot of good.  I think "Islam" can be a veil and be an evil idol worshipped aside from God. I think perhaps I was more of that type of Muslim before my Deism. I think "Christianity" or any religion can be a veil from God and idol worshipped aside from God.

The Quran is a very unusual book. It has many faces and many ugly faces as that. To find it's true beauty requires reflection, and interpreting verses with one another.

That said, the holy chosen guides talked about how despite it being written in a way that no one can misunderstand, a Mustathaaf, in which God will most likely pardon them, also includes those who can't recite the Surahs as ought to be recited.

They taught a forbearing attitude instead of this perspective that if someone read Quran and disbelieved they are definitely the disbelievers in God's proofs and guidance that has come to them, they taught the proof of it and it's true face may not have reached them.

And with the bad translations out there, I really don't blame people from not seeing the over all argument and message of Quran.

And I don't think I would of returned to Islam if this perspective didn't exist. I can't handle the thought of so many Atheists or non-religious people that I know, to be good, to be evil or treat them as people who disbelieved in clear proofs the same way Pharaoh disbelieved in clear proofs.

There is a saying by Shia Mystics that most people are good looking, neither are they super good looking neither are they ugly, but rather most are between those two extremes and are good enough looking, the same is true of the inward state of humanity, most are neither evil or utmost sincere seekers of truth, but rather most are in middle, they don't seek it with utmost strength but neither would they deny it where they too realize it in their souls.

This perspective is essential in how I deal with people of various views, Atheist, Theist, or of different religions.

Sometimes I do get angry at Sunnis not seeing the family of Mohammad in Quran and Sunnah, but then, I do calm down and realize, they too probably are mustathafeen.

So beliefs I think are important. Which is why I'm glad I went through the Deism stage of my life which opened me up to realize essential verses and ahadith that I haven't thought too much about.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

You can pray as little or as much as you want and it won't make a difference. It's down to Allah. If Allah wants to make you strong, you do not need to pray even once.

Quran 3:26 "Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power."

What's up with the 5 times a day praying BS if surah 3:26 is true?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

You can pray as little or as much as you want and it won't make a difference. It's down to Allah. If Allah wants to make you strong, you do not need to pray even once.

Quran 3:26 "Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power."

That verse refers to "power" as in "authority", the word used is mulk which can be translated as kingdom as well. Not that I disagree that God can take power in the other sense from who he wants and give to he wants, but just wanted to correct you on that. 

Power can sometimes refer to authority so maybe that is why they translated there as that?

Why do people have to translate the Bible and the Koran everytime they read them?  If they are such experts then they should publish their own translations as being the correct ones. And who numbered the chapters and verses?

[Foxaèr]

Theists make apologetic arguments for prayer not working.

How lame must one be to create a reason for something not working when the religion specifically states in verse how one in faith must simply ask and it shall be done.

Theists are fucking lame.

[Minimalist]

That verse refers to "power" as in "authority", the word used is mulk which can be translated as kingdom as well. Not that I disagree that God can take power in the other sense from who he wants and give to he wants, but just wanted to correct you on that. 

Power can sometimes refer to authority so maybe that is why they translated there as that?

Why do people have to translate the Bible and the Koran everytime they read them?  If they are such experts then they should publish their own translations as being the correct ones. And who numbered the chapters and verses?

http://www.gotquestions.org/divided-Bibl...erses.html

Answer: When the books of the Bible were originally written, they did not contain chapter or verse references. The Bible was divided into chapters and verses to help us find Scriptures more quickly and easily. It is much easier to find "John chapter 3, verse 16" than it is to find "for God so loved the world..." In a few places, chapter breaks are poorly placed and as a result divide content that should flow together. Overall, though, the chapter and verse divisions are very helpful.

The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton's chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan's verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Why do people have to translate the Bible and the Koran everytime they read them?  If they are such experts then they should publish their own translations as being the correct ones. And who numbered the chapters and verses?

http://www.gotquestions.org/divided-Bibl...erses.html

Answer: When the books of the Bible were originally written, they did not contain chapter or verse references. The Bible was divided into chapters and verses to help us find Scriptures more quickly and easily. It is much easier to find "John chapter 3, verse 16" than it is to find "for God so loved the world..." In a few places, chapter breaks are poorly placed and as a result divide content that should flow together. Overall, though, the chapter and verse divisions are very helpful.

The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton's chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan's verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.

I know about the Bible.  I should have made it clear that I was asking about the Koran.  The funny thing is that all of the muslim nuts use the numbered chapter and verse citations although Uthman's Koran wasn't formatted that way.  The intent is to get them to admit that they are actually using the English formatted Koran.

[robvalue]

Yeah, as long as your prayer ritual is as strenuous as a workout at the gym, it's pretty likely to work.

Ever seen devout muslims pray?  Up and down and up and down and up and down.  Five times a day too.  Grass drills with a yoga mat.

They said on the bible reloaded it was originally meant to be 50 prayer sessions a day, but that fake Jesus guy managed to haggle God down to five.

[FebruaryOfReason]

If you aren't getting buff, you aren't praying right. Jesus showed us the way. And so what if his abs look like a gigantic hard-on glued to his stomach and ejaculating red and white spunk?



Unfortunately - and I'm increasing beginning to believe this is a fundamental difference between science and religion - Jesus neglected to leave us sufficiently rigorous instructions on how to replicate his results. You can pray as much as you like and you might never have abs like Jesus. The papers Jesus published always leave room for his followers to say "you're just not doing it right" when we fail to replicate his results.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The thread recalls a scene from 'I, Claudius':

Claudius: Well, don't you prescribe special prayers to be used when taking medicine?

Xenophon: I suggest, Caesar, that as High Pontiff and the author of a book on religion, you are more qualified to prescribe prayers than I am.

Claudius: Do you Greeks believe in nothing?

Xenophon: I told you what I believe in. Briony.

Boru