Earth and biological matter

[ABierman1986]

Much of this does not address your initial question Quest for Knowledge. Current theory for the development of biological theory can be approached from several fronts as you have seen in the previous posts. I submit a different type of theory that deals with biological systems simply as complex systems, similar to a hurricane or the intergalactic interactions.

The definition for a complex system is simply a grouping of heterogeneous components that work together to exhibit one or more specific characteristics. Life may not be magical in this context, but it is logically consistent to define it as such.

I digress for that moment because the important characteristic of complex systems is a more efficient use of and larger intake of energy than non-complex systems. This means that energy entering the Earth is consumed faster and more efficiently if there is life and other complex systems on it than not.

This is important because several conclusions are possible from this perspective on life, more evidence is needed to fully support these ideas but they are exciting and explain a great deal. The main conclusion concerning your question is that the universe as we know it came to being when matter spontaneously exploded from vacuum energy (a phenomena observed in quantum scales today but this theory still requires more development) and ever since then the universe has been dissipating this energy release from the big bang by organizing into more and more complex systems which use up the extant energy faster than if the universe were to remain in a chaotic state.

Life is a result of the right conditions arising in a solar system that the complex system can develop to such a scale that intelligence and cognition develop, the more intelligent a being, the more energy they require (this does not presume all species would develop sentience, evolutionary laws of natural selection still apply and many other factors can be ascribed to the wide diversity of life we see and other species may be more or less efficient than us). Planets and stars contain impossibly complex interactions within them, and it could very well be the direction of the universe's development is along an energy gradient that optimizes the laws of thermodynamics.

Again, this is another suggestion for why biological systems arise, to utilize energy of the universe better in the right conditions. This is by no means a proven theory and the evidence needed to substantially support it is still monumental, but it is an intriguing way to look at the universe and it makes a kind of elegant sense.

[Quest of knowledge]

ABierman,

This is the type of thinking that I find stimulating, although it could be the other way around. Biological systems may form (as fungus colonies, coral colonies, and bacterial colonies do) when the conditions make it possible. Satellite exploration on comets has revealed that comets carry water and mineral with rudimental organic like matter. It could be that biological colonies start when comets hit a suitable host planet. That said, the case I propose does not contradict your statement because the absorption of energy by biological systems may serve a greater function in the Universe, as you seem to imply.

I have been thinking that perhaps the answer to understanding the Universe is to study the micro Universe. If we find a micro scale of what we observe as the larger Universe, we would be able to infer some sort of repeating sequences. That, of course, would only be possible if indeed there were repeating paterns. The thought is related to the fact that atoms are like solar systems with their electrons as planets and that neutrons, protons, and eletrons are in turn composed of smaller components.

[downbeatplumb]

ABierman,


I have been thinking that perhaps the answer to understanding the Universe is to study the micro Universe. If we find a micro scale of what we observe as the larger Universe, we would be able to infer some sort of repeating sequences. That, of course, would only be possible if indeed there were repeating paterns. The thought is related to the fact that atoms are like solar systems with their electrons as planets and that neutrons, protons, and eletrons are in turn composed of smaller components.

Not as much like a solar system as you think.
The idea that electrons orbit atomic nucleus is known as a 'lie to children'.
Its not the truth, but it kinda gives you a simplistic idea.

electrons exist at the quantum scale and the quantum scale is freaky wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration
The orbiting electrons dont behave like planets but exist in a 'cloud' a

[The Omnissiunt One]

Quantum physics should be taught at school. Confuse the little brats. Undermine their faith in conventional views of causation. That's my advice.

[Quest of knowledge]

I don’t think the universe has any more awareness of us than my liver has of the atoms that form it. I think our current senses would not allow us to conduct any form of empirical analysis to that effect, but perhaps one day before we become extinct, we might.

Sorry, but no, that assertion that we cannot conduct any research given our senses is far from the truth. We do have a whole array of evidence of the phenomena in question, we can use celestial mechanics to work out structures and dynamics of the universe through equations and there's this whole scientific study called "Cosmology" we've only been working on for thousands of years.

That's not how the scientific method works, we don't build up an understanding or knowledge base in one field of study, like for example human biology, only then to refute our own knowledge by stating "We don't know" when we can't find a second heart in our bodies. That's a ridiculously unreasonable position that rejects everything we do know about reality. Now sure, there are many grey areas that lack a clearer more transparent explanation but that's to be expected given how complex reality is.

Last time we checked 'Life' is the condition or self-replicating sequence which distinguishes active organisms from inorganic matter. All the available empirical evidence points to the universe displaying no characteristics of signalling and self-sustaining processes present in living organisms.

Now its maybe your own intuition that this cosmos is a living being, but like with theist's asserting some god-thingy outside space-time did everything if the universe is actually alive we need evidence of these characteristics first. I encourage open-mindedness and we're free to speculate what might constitute as other life forms or seek a more accurate definition of "life", but its counterintuitive to shun the available evidence as "We don't know" when it points us to the universe demonstrating no signs of being alive simply because you hold to your gut feelings that it might be.

Please check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory for an example of how mathematics attempts to record (mathematics is above all a language) phenomena and how in physics, cosmology, and engineering formulas are changed periodically to account for more precise observation of phenomena.

A good friend of mine is a very high profile professor of chemical engineering. He does a great deal of private work for the largest petrochemical multinationals. His work consists in deriving formulae for the development of catalysts for the extraction of polymers with specific properties. I have spent many hours watching him conduct experiments and edit formulae to fit results, conduct new experiments, revise formulae, and continue for weeks. Once he obtained the desired catalyst to extract polymers with the desired properties, my friend would have some of his graduate students conduct experiments based on his formulae. Once those third parties were able to repeat the experiments and obtain the exact same polymers separately, my friend would then send his formula to his petrochemical clients. He starts with a mathematical formula based on his previous knowledge, but the end formula is based on the experiments and not the other way around.

Mathematics is the only universal language of humans, and we use it to record, not discover, knowledge. Mathematics is then used to learn already discovered knowledge.

---

ABierman,


I have been thinking that perhaps the answer to understanding the Universe is to study the micro Universe. If we find a micro scale of what we observe as the larger Universe, we would be able to infer some sort of repeating sequences. That, of course, would only be possible if indeed there were repeating paterns. The thought is related to the fact that atoms are like solar systems with their electrons as planets and that neutrons, protons, and eletrons are in turn composed of smaller components.

Not as much like a solar system as you think.
The idea that electrons orbit atomic nucleus is known as a 'lie to children'.
Its not the truth, but it kinda gives you a simplistic idea.

electrons exist at the quantum scale and the quantum scale is freaky wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration
The orbiting electrons dont behave like planets but exist in a 'cloud' a

Thank you for the information. This is a great example of how science finds it necessary to challenge and change all previous scientific knowledge on the pursuit of new knowledge. The website you sent me does not contradict the theory of orbital electrons, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory offers an alternative explanation of electron theory and it explains it mathematically. Given our knowledge of science, it is entirely predictable that both theories will sooner than later be proven inconsistent with further knowledge of atomic knowledge, and a new theory will have to be developed.

That is the beauty of science. Like perfection, it is not a destination but a journey. In my case, it is a quest

[ib.me.ub]

That, of course, would only be possible if indeed there were repeating paterns.

There are repeating patterns created by the movement.

[Quest of knowledge]

That, of course, would only be possible if indeed there were repeating paterns.

There are repeating patterns created by the movement.

I mean repeating patterns from micro to macro, or shapes from one spectrum of matter to another. Those patterns would help us infer and extrapolate.

[theVOID]

I would like to know your thoughts and opinions on how the biological system came to exist on Earth and its possible existence in other star systems.

I smell a troll...

[ib.me.ub]

I mean repeating patterns from micro to macro, or shapes from one spectrum of matter to another. Those patterns would help us infer and extrapolate.

As all things in the Universe are of the same thing I believe we can assume the patterns are uniform from micro to macro.

[ABierman1986]

I mean repeating patterns from micro to macro, or shapes from one spectrum of matter to another. Those patterns would help us infer and extrapolate.

As all things in the Universe are of the same thing I believe we can assume the patterns are uniform from micro to macro.

Repeating patterns from micro to macro scales are called fractals, an amazing science. The Mendelbrot set, numerous animal life, and complex weather and outer space interactions create gorgeous fractal images that show infinite regression and progression of patterns. Things like fractals, the Fibonacci sequence, the golden ratio, pi, etc... are some of the more wondrous and intriguing aspects of the universe I think.... I wonder what wider implication this repetition of pattern could have?