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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 5:05 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2016 at 5:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Chad, it doesn't matter, I'm not criticizing your use of approximating numerical terms. There's simply nothing about the position of- atheism-, that clashes with the supernatural or immaterial...and so your ideas of what can and can't peacefully coexist with atheism or in the mind of The Atheist™ amount to less than nothing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 5:21 pm
You have argued otherwise by calling numbers and physical laws "just concepts".
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 5:27 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2016 at 5:36 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Jesus christ, if you think you need to keep talking in order to avoid acknowledging that what you said was inexcusably ignorant, you'd be wrong.
Nothing about atheism has any conflict with a belief in the supernatural or the immaterial. End-of. Got an issue, take it up with buddhists, new age mystics, quantum woosters, and your run of the mill believers in any number of cretinous magical claims who just so happen not to believe in gods. The position of atheism can peacefully co-exist with -anything- that doesn;t involve a god...because it's a single line item.....no matter how desperate you are to impart something larger or more easily objectionable.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 5:43 pm
I don't care about them. I'm talking about you now. Are you saying that your nominalism is completely inseparable from your atheism?
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 5:50 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2016 at 6:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
There you go again....trying to impose upon others. I'm not a nominalist, lol. But yes....absolutely, my atheism is separate from a great many other things that I am or positions that I hold.. I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I didn't conclude it, I didn't reason it out, I didn't weigh it against any other positions I may hold to arrive at it.... I simply don't believe and never have. I'm not an atheist because I don't believe in the supernatural...I'm not an atheist because I don't believe in the immaterial. I'm not an atheist because I'm a social liberal or because I;m a fiscal conservative. I'm not an atheist because I really fancy methodological materialism, I'm not an atheist because I'm blonde.....and I'm not an atheist because I'm a rabid and irrational patriot. I'm an atheist.....because I don't believe in gods.
Been pretty open about that on these boards.
(fear we might be derailing bennys thread...you could make a new one with these questions chad...I''ll join you there)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 6:06 pm
I don't believe you. Theological positions are deeply entangled with philosophical ideas. You may have started as just an atheist, but to suggest that that has had no affect on your subsequent philosophical speculations is absurd. Despite your protest, nominalism best describes the philosophical position associated with the types of arguments you make.
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 6:08 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2016 at 6:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm not sure your beliefs about me are going to be very compelling...to me. Sorry buddy, I'm just not a nominalist (and I think you might want to take a closer look at the things I argue if you've been suffering under that misconception). If you have an axe to grind with nominalism you're going to need to find a different figurehead for it. As to the notion that my atheism just -has- to inform so much more about me....you seem to think that the god question is entirely more important than I do. Try to remember, that I don't believe in the first place...and so I -don't- feel that it's germane to much of anything else...at all. It would be like me claiming that alot of your subsequent positions just -have- to have something to do with the fact that you don't believe in Jack Frost. Probably not, huh?
( again...is this something you want to explore....in a seperate thread? If not, okay.... but I won't be spending any more time trying to convince you that I know better what I think...and what my positions are....than you do.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Physical idealism
May 13, 2016 at 9:42 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2016 at 9:46 pm by bennyboy.)
(May 13, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You may think that, I may think that..but a few posts back (#38) Benny told me that this wasn't the case. That there's no difference between what he would call an idea and what I might call "something else".
To clarify: I said that in an individual instance, like a single human being, the physical idea of reproduction and the genetic fact (or any other view) of reproduction are pretty much the same. That's because you can't really infer a formative principle in a single individual. That's why I suggested you hadn't read what you quoted: because the word "individual" seemed to have gotten missed based on how you answered the quote.
If you look at animals in general, we can see that reproduction is likely to have evolved because of the incredible benefits they would have in creating new organisms with a chance to fight against statistical moment-- moments where a form (i.e. an organism) is tested in a relatively chaotic environment. I'd argue that some form of sexual reproduction is likely to pop up in any environment chaotic enough to allow for abiogenesis, given enough time. I'd therefore call it a physical idea: a pattern that will pop up in the universe so often that it is transcendent of the particular mechanism (in our case, DNA).
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RE: Physical idealism
May 14, 2016 at 7:32 am
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2016 at 7:44 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I didn't miss it, I don't see how a collective salvages the statement made in reference to an individual example.
You haven't changed my mind in this post either. A form is an organism..fine..organisms are material...forms are material. You can call them forms and I'll keep calling them organisms and we'll both be referring to the same thing.
If some form of sexual reproduction will crop up...a material interaction....because the environment is chaotic enough....environmental pressures, also material and acting -on- the material.....then your "physical idea" is just a description of material interactions and their outcomes when the particulars of those interactions are sufficiently similar.
Again, you're calling materialism physical idealism. Or VV, it doesn't really matter. The realtionship to which you are referring doesn't even need an alien world as a postulate. It happens here on earth. We call it convergent development, or convergent evolution. A bird and a bat share the relationship that our fish and your alien "not-fish but called fish" have - as you explain it. If you wanted to answer the question of why both birds and bats have wings (like we answered the question of limbs and digits) you will merely launch into a never-ending slew of explanations referent to material interactions and objects...and at no point will there be any reason to conclude or evidence to support the notion that they were both driving towards an idea -of any kind-. That's not how evolution works,, so far as we can tell. You seem to think you have profound corrections to our understanding of that subject. I don't think that you do.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Physical idealism
May 14, 2016 at 8:50 am
I don't think you're using the definition of "idea" that I've given.
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