Can I just say, and I'm just being honest...

[Edwardo Piet]

There are no monsters. I would say the people who dehumanize people as subhumans or 'monsters' come pretty close... but in truth even those people are not monsters at all either and, of course, it would be hypocritical to say they were. But they come pretty fucking close. Hitler was all about treating humans like monsters and he was about as close to a human monster as you can get. Although, again, ultimately there are no monsters... not even under one's bed

I'm sure you can agree with me Rob I know you were joking and I just made it serious, hehe. I just find it interesting

I think this subject about monsters needs a new thread, hehe.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Because I'm on a quoting-jag --

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

I think there are human monsters. I also think that each and every one of us has that potential, depending on circumstance.

As Solzhenitsyn wrote, "the line between good and evil runs down the middle of every man's heart."

[Edwardo Piet]

Perfect. That's the quote I was thinking of and couldn't locate!

Cheers Thump.

Also



Batman may be the 'hero' but not only is Batman not real... but in reality vigilantism is extremely unjust and corrupt and it would never work.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Vigilantism, in my view, is an evil, because it enshrines the subjective over the objective. In my way of thinking, the good life is attained when those two values are put into balance. Nothing inherently wrong with preferring your own feelings, but giving them primacy almost always results in hurting others, and that ain't good.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think there are human monsters. I also think that each and every one of us has that potential, depending on circumstance.

I guess it comes down to a matter of definition then. I would consider a 'human monster' to be a 'subhuman'... and I don't believe in the existence of subhumans nor do I believe in dehumanizing anyone. This is why I don't believe in human monsters. I have compassion for absolutely everyone

The thread is derailing... I hope either the derail ends or the thread is split... whatever happens I want this thread to stay strong: I love this awesome thread created by my awesome friend Ivy.

[Edwardo Piet]

Vigilantism, in my view, is an evil, because it enshrines the subjective over the objective. In my way of thinking, the good life is attained when those two values are put into balance. Nothing inherently wrong with preferring your own feelings, but giving them primacy almost always results in hurting others, and that ain't good.

I agree 100%.

[Edwardo Piet]

Tits.

That is all.

That is all? What did you do with the rest of her?

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

I missed this! That was fucking epic Rob!

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think there are human monsters. I also think that each and every one of us has that potential, depending on circumstance.

I guess it comes down to a matter of definition then. I would consider a 'human monster' to be a 'subhuman'... and I don't believe in the existence of subhumans nor do I believe in dehumanizing anyone. This is why I don't believe in human monsters. I have compassion for absolutely everyone

See, I disagree there. Even human monsters are still human. We both agree Hitler was a monster, but he loved his niece, and his dog. Given the right set of circumstances, I believe, we each and every one of us have the capacity to become Hitler, or Salk, or Genghis Khan, or Sargent Shriver. We each have the capacity for great good and evil -- and what that tells me is that how we live is a choice -- we choose each modality, day-by-day and even moment-by-moment.

And all those modalities are part of the human experience. A guy like Hitler may have been the nadir of humanity, but he was still human. Someone like Salk may have been the apotheosis of humanity -- but he too was still human, his wife probably bitched about his skid-marks no matter that he discovered the polio vaccine.

And we all have skid-marks. We all do.

The thread is derailing... I hope either the derail ends or the thread is split... whatever happens I want this thread to stay strong: I love this awesome thread created by my awesome friend Ivy.

Probably, but hey, it's a good convo, and if it isn't split, readers will get a nice surprise.

I'm going to go play my guitar a bit, but I sure appreciate the thinking you've given me, and hope I've returned the favor, Hammy.

[Edwardo Piet]

I guess it comes down to a matter of definition then. I would consider a 'human monster' to be a 'subhuman'... and I don't believe in the existence of subhumans nor do I believe in dehumanizing anyone. This is why I don't believe in human monsters. I have compassion for absolutely everyone

See, I disagree there. Even human monsters are still human. We both agree Hitler was a monster, but he loved his niece, and his dog. Given the right set of circumstances, I believe, we each and every one of us have the capacity to become Hitler, or Salk, or Genghis Khan, or Sargent Shriver. We each have the capacity for great good and evil -- and what that tells me is that how we live is a choice -- we choose each modality, day-by-day and even moment-by-moment.

And all those modalities are part of the human experience. A guy like Hitler may have been the nadir of humanity, but he was still human. Someone like Salk may have been the apotheosis of humanity -- but he too was still human, his wife probably bitched about his skid-marks no matter that he discovered the polio vaccine.

And we all have skid-marks. We all do.

I agree completely with everything you say here. I just don't believe in 'human monsters' because to me calling a human a monster is like calling them subhuman.

I'm thinking perhaps your way of looking at things makes more sense. I guess what I'm asking is what is your definition of a 'human monster'... Hitler is an example, but how about a definition?

ETA: Oh I agree with everything except I didn't quite agree Hitler was a monster. I think he's almost one and about as close as you can get... but that's because I'm defining a 'human monster' as subhuman and I don't believe in such a thing. I think he's about as close as you can get to one because he genocided millions of people like they were monsters. But yeah, Hitler is a classic example of a 'human monster', although I personally wouldn't call anyone a monster.

Probably, but hey, it's a good convo, and if it isn't split, readers will get a nice surprise.

I hope so

I'm going to go play my guitar a bit, but I sure appreciate the thinking you've given me, and hope I've returned the favor, Hammy.

You certainly have

[robvalue]

JBH: I'm pretty pleased with myself. Just beat the world record on Enyo.

https://youtu.be/z3GsbETgWRs