For Americans tired of NRA bullying.

[Minimalist]

but the gun is only the means.

But the gun is a very effective "means."  You know, all those other methods you mentioned were in existence long before guns and they were superseded by guns because of their efficiency.

You know what a gun does?  A gun gives the 98-lb weakling delusions of grandeur.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, I don't mind restricting the means, even if I don't think that blaming the means is appropriate.  Sometimes we just can't have nice things.  I want a harrier, I shouldn't be allowed to own a harrier.  

If we -are- going to restrict the means, why don't we do that, rather than wasting our time with "assault weapon" bans?  As I was mentioning in thread earlier, the only parts of the assault weapons ban we were considering that actually would restrict the means was the part that got written out. Then, for added amusement (I guess?), the same assault weapon ban failed to ban assault rifles and instead banned my long 22. Does this seem like the sort of law that addresses the means, or the problem?

Not to my mind. It's not unconstitutional, as gun nuts often scream to high heaven, it's just idiotic.

[Gawdzilla]

That proves it, then.

Gawd...  I know you will not agree, but the gun is only the means.  A knife can be the means.  A car can be the means.  A pair of hands can be the means.  All of those mentioned often are the means of killing.  Putting blame on the means lessens the importance of the cause. 

Without a deity to snap his fingers, making all firearms disappear and removing all thought of the making of firearms from all human minds, there is absolutely no way to get rid of all firearms.  To think we can get rid of all guns is just head-in-the-sand stupid.  Firearms can be made very easily, and prohibition will only give breath to the black market.  Getting rid of a type of firearm because of features is the first step in further restriction and eventual prohibition. 

You keep saying you're an owner and shooter, so how can you think the gun is the problem?  Have your guns gone out and caused problems?  Have they killed people?  Are they out raping and plundering, ever?  Have your guns ever set themselves on a table within reach of a child?  If you had an AR-15, would you suddenly turn rabid? Would that pistol grip or semi-automatic function turn you into a crazed-killer?  Guns are not the problem.  Insanity, hate, negligence and religion are the problems.

You don't recognize sarcasm when you see it, I think.

[Gawdzilla]

but the gun is only the means.

But the gun is a very effective "means."  You know, all those other methods you mentioned were in existence long before guns and they were superseded by guns because of their efficiency.

You know what a gun does?  A gun gives the 98-lb weakling delusions of grandeur.

And some poor schmuck in a trailer the idea that he's invincible. 

[RetiredArmy]

Yes Gawd, my mistake. That was for Brian. I mistook who said what.

---

I do not disagree, firearms give idiots alternate means to do harm. Remove guns, they'll use rocks, sticks, knives, cars, hands, bow and arrow, crossbow, airplanes, rope, feet, saw blades, wire, machetes, swords, gasoline, diesel, alcohol, LSD, marijuana, heroin, cocaine, meth, opioids, water, snakes, dogs, hogs, lions, tigers, bears (oh my!), sharks (with and without lasers), trains, buses, tractors, forklifts, cell phones (texting while driving), Walmart bags, and pinkies. This is the short list. Taking guns away from those that obey the law will only improve things for those who will not obey.

[Gawdzilla]

Yes Gawd, my mistake. That was for Brian. I mistook who said what.

---

 

Fair 'nuff.

[KUSA]

You want to ban Assault Rifles? Let's ban Assault Cars then.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the problem, they don't want to ban assault rifles...they want to ban assault weapons.  Who can blame them?

Look upon his fearsome piece of assault weaponry and tremble.


I know, I know, not what they had in mind, and yet. Maybe it was something like this they meant to ban?


No, no, couldn't have been......they're the same damned gun. High capacity semi auto .22lr

[Gawdzilla]

That's the problem, they don't want to ban assault rifles...they want to ban assault weapons.  Who can blame them?

Look upon his fearsome piece of assault weaponry and tremble.

"Assault" comes from the German word "sturm", to assault. Hence Sturmgewehr

[The Grand Nudger]

You keep saying that as though it mattered in the context of our laws, which it doesn't - and wouldn't distinguish between those two if it did.  I can assault a position with either, to exactly the same effect. Can I get your opinion on the above.  Do you think that the winchester was the intended target of an assault weapons ban or the mp? Can I get your opinion as a shooter and owner, on the relative lethality of the two semi auto high cap .22 lrs I posted? On which should be, and which shouldn't be illegal, and why?