Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned

[ABierman1986]

The existence of Jesus may be true, but it is quite seriously debated and little evidence does exist that I know of to substantiate his living. The origins of Christianity are easily explained as an offshoot belief of already extant Judaism and don't require a messiah anymore than the methodists required a different messiah than the mormons. Please come back when you've backed up your arguments, or prove me wrong and tell me who you are referencing and what evidence serious scholars present. I've never said I was a Christian and you fail to convince me that the resurrection occurred with that argument. You didn't answer any of my points, just told me I was wrong. This is the wrong place to present that kind of response.

[solja247]

There is no conclusive evidence that jesus existed in the first place so the likelyhood that there is anything like proof of resurrection is frankly zero.

Lets go with this very very bold statement.

So what started Christianity?

Can you have Islam without Mohammad?
Can you have Buddhism without Buddha?

But you suppose Christianity started without its founder, Jesus. This should be interesting.

[mem]

What evidence?

Answer the question - WHAT EVIDENCE????

[ABierman1986]

The answer to your questions is a resounding YES! Did the Greek gods have an actual Zeus? The Eqyptians an actual Anubis? The Aztecs a Quezalcoatl? The existence of the deity has never been necessary for a religion. Christianity is a liberative movement from the oppressive old testament, just like Martin Luther started the protestant movement when he was dissatisfied with the church, the christians began their movement when dissatisfied with Judaism. And there are significant dogmatic differences between Christian sects so why not between Christianity and Judaism?

[solja247]

The existence of Jesus may be true, but it is quite seriously debated and little evidence does exist that I know of to substantiate his living. The origins of Christianity are easily explained as an offshoot belief of already extant Judaism and don't require a messiah anymore than the methodists required a different messiah than the mormons. Please come back when you've backed up your arguments, or prove me wrong and tell me who you are referencing and what evidence serious scholars present. I've never said I was a Christian and you fail to convince me that the resurrection occurred with that argument. You didn't answer any of my points, just told me I was wrong. This is the wrong place to present that kind of response.

Just wait, you are telling me, that the very exclusive Jews became so inclusive, that they accepted anyone (Even women) because they were just an off shoot of Judaism?

Why is the Bible not considered a reliable? The four gospels were written decades after Jesus went to heaven?

Although the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians,[156][157][158][159][160] a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure. Among the proponents of non-historicity was Bruno Bauer in the 19th century. Non-historicity was somewhat influential in biblical studies during the early 20th century. The views of scholars who entirely rejected Jesus' historicity then were based on a suggested lack of eyewitnesses, a lack of direct archaeological evidence, the failure of certain ancient works to mention Jesus, and similarities early Christianity shared with then-contemporary religion and mythology.[161]

More recently, arguments for non-historicity have been discussed by authors such as George Albert Wells and Robert M. Price. Additionally, The Jesus Puzzle and The Jesus Mysteries are examples of works presenting the non-historical hypothesis.

Classicist Michael Grant stated that standard historical criteria prevent one from rejecting the existence of an historical Jesus.[162] The New Testament scholar, James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Chris...ical_views

---

Answer the question - WHAT EVIDENCE????Angry

Not here. I am going to start me defence tomorrow in another thread (Ive forgotten what its called)

The answer to your questions is a resounding YES! Did the Greek gods have an actual Zeus? The Eqyptians an actual Anubis? The Aztecs a Quezalcoatl? The existence of the deity has never been necessary for a religion. Christianity is a liberative movement from the oppressive old testament, just like Martin Luther started the protestant movement when he was dissatisfied with the church, the christians began their movement when dissatisfied with Judaism. And there are significant dogmatic differences between Christian sects so why not between Christianity and Judaism?

Clearly you have never heard of the New perspective on Paul. (Google it)

You never answered the question. Any religion has a leader. Judaism, Abraham and Moses (real people). Mohammad, Islam. And what about Christianity, who was its leader?

[ABierman1986]

The existence of Jesus may be true, but it is quite seriously debated and little evidence does exist that I know of to substantiate his living. The origins of Christianity are easily explained as an offshoot belief of already extant Judaism and don't require a messiah anymore than the methodists required a different messiah than the mormons. Please come back when you've backed up your arguments, or prove me wrong and tell me who you are referencing and what evidence serious scholars present. I've never said I was a Christian and you fail to convince me that the resurrection occurred with that argument. You didn't answer any of my points, just told me I was wrong. This is the wrong place to present that kind of response.

Just wait, you are telling me, that the very exclusive Jews became so inclusive, that they accepted anyone (Even women) because they were just an off shoot of Judaism?

Why is the Bible not considered a reliable? The four gospels were written decades after Jesus went to heaven?

Although the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians,[156][157][158][159][160] a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure. Among the proponents of non-historicity was Bruno Bauer in the 19th century. Non-historicity was somewhat influential in biblical studies during the early 20th century. The views of scholars who entirely rejected Jesus' historicity then were based on a suggested lack of eyewitnesses, a lack of direct archaeological evidence, the failure of certain ancient works to mention Jesus, and similarities early Christianity shared with then-contemporary religion and mythology.[161]

More recently, arguments for non-historicity have been discussed by authors such as George Albert Wells and Robert M. Price. Additionally, The Jesus Puzzle and The Jesus Mysteries are examples of works presenting the non-historical hypothesis.

Classicist Michael Grant stated that standard historical criteria prevent one from rejecting the existence of an historical Jesus.[162] The New Testament scholar, James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Chris...ical_views

The creation of Christianity was not overnight, it was NOT all inclusive for sure. The FOUR gospels? Of how many written? By men who had what goal in mind? The wikipedia article you cite has no logical arguments contained within it. Perhaps Jesus did live, but the evidence for it is certainly not conclusive and that Jesus was anything more than any of a number of charlatans at the time is completely unsupported as well. Meaning that saying someone by the name Jesus lived and called himself the messiah is not saying the Jesus you are referring to ever lived.

[solja247]

The creation of Christianity was not overnight,

Indeed. Christianity and its ideologies you see today took centuries to develop and was largely influenced by paganism (Idea of eternal after life) anyways the Nazarene sect I am talking about which was Jewish and Jesus was the founder of.

it was NOT all inclusive for sure.

What do you mean?

The FOUR gospels? Of how many written? By men who had what goal in mind?

Well, of course the synoptic gospels. They all had different intentions but the overall one was to show Jesus.

The wikipedia article you cite has no logical arguments contained within it.

I never said it did. I was merely pointing out that the majority of scholars dont question Jesus's existence.

Perhaps Jesus did live, but the evidence for it is certainly not conclusive and that Jesus was anything more than any of a number of charlatans at the time is completely unsupported as well

Its not perhaps, its He did. Explain to what is your explanation of the start of Christianity? So far you and anyone else here have shown nothing.

Meaning that saying someone by the name Jesus lived and called himself the messiah is not saying the Jesus you are referring to ever lived.

Well the name 'Jeshua' was very popular around that time, this man claimed to be the Christ. As Lewis writes, you can either claim Him as a lunatic, or the a demon, or something worse, or worship at His feet and call Him Lord.

With your logic. Paul, Peter and many of the early Christians never existed. But of course there are many sources outside the Bible Jesus is mentioned...

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/87

Is that enough evidence?

[Tiberius]

But you suppose Christianity started without its founder, Jesus. This should be interesting.

Christianity was founded by Paul...

[solja247]

Christianity was founded by Paul...

Thats a bold claim. Very bold claim. You dont even know he existed!

What do think about his testimony? (His conversion to the Christian cause?)

How about James the brother of Jesus and Peter? Were they leaders too?

[Spencer]

Christianity was founded by Paul...

Thats a bold claim. Very bold claim. You dont even know he existed!

What do think about his testimony? (His conversion to the Christian cause?)

How about James the brother of Jesus and Peter? Were they leaders too?

Don't know Paul existed? You don't know Jesus existed, but you claim he founded Christianity. Historically speaking Paul founded Christianity.