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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 8:43 am
(August 8, 2010 at 8:30 am)solja247 Wrote: Thats a bold claim. Very bold claim. No it isn't. You go on about scholars and theologians agreeing that Jesus existed (and I agree by the way). Well, they also agree that the Apostle Paul was the founder of Christianity.
Quote:You dont even know he existed!
I don't, no. That doesn't mean I don't believe he did. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Paul existed, especially in his letters...
Quote:What do think about his testimony? (His conversion to the Christian cause?)
Obviously I don't believe it...
Quote:How about James the brother of Jesus and Peter? Were they leaders too?
Leaders are different to founders. As I said, Paul is considered by most scholars as the founder of Christianity.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 8:50 am
Quote:No it isn't. You go on about scholars and theologians agreeing that Jesus existed (and I agree by the way). Well, they also agree that the Apostle Paul was the founder of Christianity.
Of course Paul was a founder of Christianity. But would of Paul been a Christian if it wasnt for Jesus?
He based this new belief solely on the resurrection of Jesus (and His life). No resurrection, no Paul or Christianity.
Quote:Obviously I don't believe it...
Why not?
Paul went from persecuting Christians to joining them, do you believe that?
Or do you believe that is all made up?
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 9:25 am
But Jesus did not create a religion based around his life and teachings. I doubt he really even expected any of that honestly.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 9:30 am
<sigh> here we go again.
There is no more actual evidence for "Paul" than there is for "mohammed." A phony prophet for a phony god.
You are indulging in special pleading, Solja. Mankind has created millions of gods. This forces you to admit that "Thor" or "Quetzlcoatl" etc had actual historical people behind them or to admit that humanity CAN invent gods without historical models. Your choice. I'll wait.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Well there is a real sun and people used to worship that.
The existance of something that was/is worshipped does not make it divine.
By the way the juries still out on the existance or not of jesus as a real historical figure.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 8, 2010 at 1:32 pm
(August 8, 2010 at 8:50 am)solja247 Wrote: Why not?
Paul went from persecuting Christians to joining them, do you believe that?
Or do you believe that is all made up?
Do you believe that Mohammad just suddenly decided to preach Islam, without a visitation from the Angel Jibril? What a proposterous idea! Therefore, Islam is true.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 9, 2010 at 5:34 am
ok. I need to do some research but we will have this debate in the near future?
Quote:Do you believe that Mohammad just suddenly decided to preach Islam, without a visitation from the Angel Jibril? What a proposterous idea! Therefore, Islam is true.
I dont know. His two main objectives were to help the poor and tell people only one God existed (not the 360 gods) So perhaps he was inspired by God. You do make a good point though.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 9, 2010 at 7:59 pm
It always seems to me that far too much research is needed to validate religious ideas...isn't it supposed to be the way the universe is supposed to run? The rules we are supposed to live by? Why is it so convoluted and hard to interpret in a way that doesn't persecute, stunt intellectual growth, discriminate and bring on violence? That was one of my initial problems with religion, I shouldn't have to learn a dead language or listen to fallible man to be able to live life as a God would want me to. I understand that when looking at the question from outside of religion these questions are much easier to answer, but from inside a theistic view why did it take so long for monotheism to develop, and why is it so hard to reach agreement?
My religion is the understanding of my world. My god is the energy that underlies it all. My worship is my constant endeavor to unravel the mysteries of my religion. 
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 9, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Quote:It always seems to me that far too much research is needed to validate religious ideas...isn't it supposed to be the way the universe is supposed to run? The rules we are supposed to live by? Why is it so convoluted and hard to interpret in a way that doesn't persecute, stunt intellectual growth, discriminate and bring on violence? That was one of my initial problems with religion, I shouldn't have to learn a dead language or listen to fallible man to be able to live life as a God would want me to. I understand that when looking at the question from outside of religion these questions are much easier to answer, but from inside a theistic view why did it take so long for monotheism to develop, and why is it so hard to reach agreement?
So you would prefered a rushed job? or a movement similar to pentecostals who dont know squat (Its all about emotions, forget about reasoning and theology)?
Tedious research is done to either present the truth or show how people lived and thought a very long time ago. Ideas and beliefs in Christianity have evolved over mileniums, so one must do a lot of research. That being said, knowing how to speak and Greek, Hebrew and Aramic will not bring you into a deeper relationship with God, its about having a relatioship with Him.
I know this is most likely exegesis but this is how I see God wants us to live:
26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
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RE: Just some rubbish, but this is MY God's gospel, so READ or you will be d---ned
August 9, 2010 at 9:37 pm
"keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Oh what a clear descriptor that is in no way vague, thanks for that! here is another idea that is just as clear, "Go and do good things such that people like what you are doing! Learn to paint with all the colors of the wind."
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