UK to leave EU

[Isis]

Interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39522265

Germany's "Mittelstand" of small and medium-sized firms (SMEs) could lose billions of euros if the UK is shut out of the single market, an industry representative has warned.

The boss of the BVMW, which represents more than 270,000 SMEs, told the BBC "a hard Brexit would harm both sides".

Mario Ohoven added that negotiations should be "guided by economic sense and not by political ideologues".

The remarks diverge from the position taken by other leading German voices.

In September last year, the head of the BDI, a powerful German business lobby whose members are larger companies, told the BBC it was "better to have a hard Brexit that works".

German politicians have almost unanimously underlined that the UK cannot have unfettered access to the single market unless it allows for the free movement of EU citizens.

In her letter to the EU last week, Theresa May said the UK would "not seek membership of the single market" in the upcoming negotiations.

[dyresand]

[Isis]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...74391.html

The European Parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt is calling on Theresa May to be “open” to a plan helping British people who want to retain EU citizenship after the UK leaves.

Writing exclusively for The Independent, Mr Verhofstadt sends a clear and direct message to the Prime Minister that he wants the European Union to make a “generous” offer to people in the UK angry at losing EU privileges.

In response to his article a government spokesman has now said that Ms May and Brexit Secretary David Davis are actually ready to "discuss" any proposals that are put forward.  

The European Parliament has already cemented into its formal negotiating guidelines its intention to explore what a potential offer to Brits might look like, with ideas including allowing them to opt in to a form of “associate EU citizenship”.

In his article, Mr Verhofstadt underlines the EU’s willingness to agree a quick reciprocal deal guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in Europe, but he then moves on to the separate issue of offering rights to people in the UK who he calls “British Europeans”.

[downbeatplumb]

Interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39522265

Germany's "Mittelstand" of small and medium-sized firms (SMEs) could lose billions of euros if the UK is shut out of the single market, an industry representative has warned.

The boss of the BVMW, which represents more than 270,000 SMEs, told the BBC "a hard Brexit would harm both sides".

Mario Ohoven added that negotiations should be "guided by economic sense and not by political ideologues".

The remarks diverge from the position taken by other leading German voices.

In September last year, the head of the BDI, a powerful German business lobby whose members are larger companies, told the BBC it was "better to have a hard Brexit that works".

German politicians have almost unanimously underlined that the UK cannot have unfettered access to the single market unless it allows for the free movement of EU citizens.

In her letter to the EU last week, Theresa May said the UK would "not seek membership of the single market" in the upcoming negotiations.

Indeed brexit will hurt both sides but not equally.

Its like someone cutting off their nose.

People survive with no noses, noses do not survive without a body.

In this example Britain is playing the part of the nose.

[Isis]

I think you're exaggerating a little. Britain will definitely take some kind of economic hit when we leave, but to say that the country cannot survive outside of the EU is just ridiculous. Remember the negotiations haven't even officially started yet.

[Autumnlicious]

What makes you think the EU won't act upon the incentive to make it as painful as possible?

And what gives you the confidence that the UK will weather it well?

[Isis]

What makes you think the EU won't act upon the incentive to make it as painful as possible?

I think the EU and the UK could survive without any agreement, but let's be honest, they aren't going to make it hard for us and we aren't going to make it hard for them considering the amount we trade with each other. There would definitely be some consequences for everyone if there wasn't an agreement but saying that the UK would not survive is ridiculous.

Now, my views on this issue aren't as strong as they were before but that is just fact. Our negotiators and their EU counterparts are just flexing their muscles, so to speak. In the end there will be some sort of agreement and things will just go on as they did before. Brexit will change very little but let's just wait and see how the negotiations go first.

Put it this way: I would be very surprised if Theresa May just walked away without any deal at all.

And what gives you the confidence that the UK will weather it well?

So far 27 countries (some EU, but most not) have expressed interest in a trade agreement after Brexit:

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Australia
Argentina
Bolivia
Brazil
Canada
Chile
China
Colombia
Ecuador
Germany
Ghana
Iceland
India
Ireland
Japan
Kenya
Korea (Republic of)
Mexico
New Zealand
Pakistan
Paraguay
Peru
Suriname
Switzerland
United States
Uruguay
Venezuela

---

Closer economic ties with the US, Canada and Australia will be especially beneficial.

[Faith No More]

Well, considering the rise of the far-right in Europe and their calls for votes on leaving the EU in other countries, they have every incentive to make this extremely difficult.

I think you're underestimating how politically important it is for them to make the U.K. wish it had never left.

[Isis]

Well, considering the rise of the far-right in Europe and their calls for votes on leaving the EU in other countries, they have every incentive to make this extremely difficult.

Do you honestly think that making it 'difficult' to leave will actually prevent other countries from leaving? It won't. In fact, it might even help the far-right grow.

I think you're underestimating how politically important it is for them to make the U.K. wish it had never left.

I don't think you understand that the EU has a lot to lose. Wait and see how the negotiations go. I will bookmark this particular post and bring it up again in two years or so. I am fairly confident that we will reach a deal that benefits everyone.

[GUBU]

What makes you think the EU won't act upon the incentive to make it as painful as possible?

I think the EU and the UK could survive without any agreement, but let's be honest, they aren't going to make it hard for us and we aren't going to make it hard for them

We've spent the last forty years making it easy for the UK, giving them opt outs and subventions over and above those available to any member, and look what happened as a result. At this stage the UK without a friend left within the EU is going to get a kicking.

Oh, and of your 27 countries, exactly none have expressed a desire to agree a deal with the UK before the UK concludes a deal with the EU, and also exactly none of them have expressed a desire to give the UK a deal better than the one it has now. And you can drop every single one of the EU listed countries there, because they will not be able to do separate deals with the UK without themselves first leaving the EU, and countries like India have already dictated their terms to the UK along the lines of "no increased access for your businesses into our country, lots of increased access for our businesses into the UK".