UK to leave EU

[Isis]

I can't find any sources supporting your claim. There have been polls conducted over the years, but no referendums. If you could provide a source that would be great.

[ukatheist]

Afaik a 'border poll' is pretty much a referendum, and can be held any time there is a significant 'shift in sentiment' in NI, with a minimum of 10 year intervals. However from what I can tell, the last one was in 1973, presumably because the sentiment hasn't shifted significantly enough as of yet for the reason MG gave.

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[Isis]

Yes, a border poll is a referendum. I was talking about literal polls done by polling services, to see if the attitude has changed over the years. 1973 was indeed the last one. I would argue that Unionists are the (small) majority for now but that will not last long, and they should be given another one to settle the issue for a while.

[GUBU]

Yes, a border poll is a referendum. I was talking about literal polls done by polling services, to see if the attitude has changed over the years. 1973 was indeed the last one. I would argue that Unionists are the (small) majority for now but that will not last long, and they should be given another one to settle the issue for a while.

2025 will see a nationalist leaning majority. And when brexit goes bad for the North expect an enlarged Alliance party to row in behind accepting reunification.

[Isis]

Yes, a border poll is a referendum. I was talking about literal polls done by polling services, to see if the attitude has changed over the years. 1973 was indeed the last one. I would argue that Unionists are the (small) majority for now but that will not last long, and they should be given another one to settle the issue for a while.

2025 will see a nationalist leaning majority. And when brexit goes bad for the North expect an enlarged Alliance party to row in behind accepting reunification.

What makes you think all of them will just start supporting that? Surely it's also possible that some factions might want to see Northern Ireland go independently entirely, no?

[GUBU]

2025 will see a nationalist leaning majority. And when brexit goes bad for the North expect an enlarged Alliance party to row in behind accepting reunification.

What makes you think all of them will just start supporting that? Surely it's also possible that some factions might want to see Northern Ireland go independently entirely, no?

The unionists looked at that in 21*, and realised the 2 1/2 counties they'd have in that case wasn't viable as a state. And now they would't even be confident of keeping Belfast.

The border poll as it'd be run now would mean either a simple majority of both communities, or an overall supermajority, something in the region of two to one.

*Northern unionism has absolutely no attachement to the UK, in fact the DUP consider English people little better than closet papists. The only reason they were willing to stay in the union was because they were given "a protestant country for a protestant people".

[Isis]

The unionists looked at that in 21*, and realised the 2 1/2 counties they'd have in that case wasn't viable as a state. And now they would't even be confident of keeping Belfast.

The border poll as it'd be run now would mean either a simple majority of both communities, or an overall supermajority, something in the region of two to one.

Fair enough. I always knew that Ulster nationalism was more of a fringe movement and not advocated by any of the mainstream parties anyway. But you know, I still hope our friends across the water get to decide their future, whatever that may be and good luck to them.

*Northern unionism has absolutely no attachement to the UK, in fact the DUP consider English people little better than closet papists. The only reason they were willing to stay in the union was because they were given "a protestant country for a protestant people".

I'm not doubting you, but what exactly do you base that on?

We've always had a better relationship with Northern Ireland than England has, anyway, if I recall correctly -- given the history and all that.

[GUBU]

I'm not doubting you, but what exactly do you base that on?

We've always had a better relationship with Northern Ireland than England has, anyway, if I recall correctly -- given the history and all that.

The constant antagonistic relationship between Northern unionist politicians and Westminster, their refusal to this day to have NI comply with laws extant in the rest of the UK, the way NI was run between 1921 and 1973.

[Ben Davis]

So, it's done then.

Today the government acts on the democratic will of the British people and it acts too on the clear and convincing position of this House.

Except it's not the will of the people and the case for Brexit is neither clear nor convincing.

This is an historic moment from which there can be no turning back.

Well, there are still options, even now that Article 50's been triggered but the Tories have made it clear that they don't care.

(Britain will now) ...take control of the things that matter most to us - we are going to take this opportunity to build a stronger, fairer Britain, a country that our children and grandchildren are proud to call home

Well, the Tories have been clear that what matters to them is creating an insular, poorly supported society which doubles as a tax haven for their rich mates. I don't see how that corresponds to strength or fairness. Plus we asked plenty of our children what they wanted and they said 'Remain!'.

(This marks) the moment for the country to come together.

'So don't worry about the facts or the expert analyses! Just trust that our plans! They're great, huuuge!'

I'm so fucking depressed about this

[Isis]

Things are certainly getting interesting.

Whatever ends up happening in the end, I sure as hell hope everything goes smoothly.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...it-demands

Angela Merkel has rejected one of Theresa May’s key Brexit demands, insisting negotiations on Britain’s exit from the European Union cannot run in parallel with talks on the future UK-EU relationship.

“The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship,” the German chancellor said in Berlin. “Only when this question is dealt with can we – hopefully soon after – begin talking about our future relationship.”

In her six-page letter triggering article 50 and formally launching the process of leaving the EU, the prime minister said she believed it was “necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawal from the European Union”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...n-security

The Brexit secretary, David Davis, has said Theresa May’s article 50 letter was not a threat to withdraw security cooperation with the EU if no final deal is reached before Britain’s exit in two years’ time.

In the letter, May warned European leaders that failure to reach a comprehensive Brexit agreement covering crucial deals on justice and home affairs would result in a weakening of cooperation on crime and security.

Guy Verhofstadt, the former Belgian prime minister who represents the European parliament at the negotiations, called it a threat and said the security of citizens was “far too important to start a trade-off of one and the other”. The Sun newspaper’s headline “Your money or your lives” on Thursday also inferred ministers would withdraw security cooperation if no trade deal was reached.