UK to leave EU

[Losty]

Seems like going bankrupt is more of a worry or a stress, no?

[CapnAwesome]

Can you give me an example of a rational fear?  I was considering poisonous snakes or spiders but I'd put those in the category of 'sensible' rather than 'rational' i.e. sensory input triggering a fight, flight or freeze reaction as opposed to rationality, which requires thought (and of course, time).

A rational fear is something based on facts. So, without going into details, I fear going bankrupt. That's based on facts and hard evidence. And yet it's a fear.

Fear of a Caliphate is not a rational fear in the West.

My numbers come from hard evidence, as in muslim population in any given western countries.

It is a rational fear if you live in the middle east.

[abaris]

It is a rational fear if you live in the middle east.

But you did note that I was talking about the west, didn't you? I certainly hope so.

[DLJ]

Seems like going bankrupt is more of a worry or a stress, no?

Yup.  That was my point.  

I know it's just nuance but it's kinda like the differences between 'hope', 'trust' and 'faith'.

Happy real Birthday, btw.

[DLJ]

Can you give me an example of a rational fear?  I was considering poisonous snakes or spiders but I'd put those in the category of 'sensible' rather than 'rational' i.e. sensory input triggering a fight, flight or freeze reaction as opposed to rationality, which requires thought (and of course, time).

A rational fear is something based on facts. So, without going into details, I fear going bankrupt. That's based on facts and hard evidence. And yet it's a fear.

Fear of a Caliphate is not a rational fear in the West.

My numbers come from hard evidence, as in muslim population in any given western countries.

Thanks for clarifying.  So it is relative to proximity.

I live in an officially muslim country, btw... which is why 2-4% seemed a bit on the low side.

[abaris]

I live in an officially muslim country, btw... which is why 2-4% seemed a bit on the low side.

That's of course a different approach. But still, depending on the particular country.

[CapnAwesome]

It is a rational fear if you live in the middle east.

But you did note that I was talking about the west, didn't you? I certainly hope so.

Yeah, that's why I noted the middle east. The west is not the whole world, the first world is the privileged few, not the majority. I think there is a problem when even a moderate percentage of Muslims in the west want something like sharia law or that gay pride parades can't go through Muslim neighborhoods without getting assaulted. Yeah, a caliphate is not a realistic fear in the west, but there is still substantial cultural trickling into Europe that is very negative. That can't be ignored. Western values are worth defending.

[Edwardo Piet]

Happy real Birthday, btw.

Kittencorn's birthday is as real as Rob's wife!

[Losty]

Seems like going bankrupt is more of a worry or a stress, no?

Yup.  That was my point.  

I know it's just nuance but it's kinda like the differences between 'hope', 'trust' and 'faith'.

Happy real Birthday, btw.

Thank you

[DLJ]

 Western values are worth defending.

I get what you're saying there (i.e. Declaration of Human Rights and all that led up to it) so this is me being a bit picky but there are some Eastern values and even some Middle Eastern ones that are worth defending.

An example would be wrt 'idolatry'.  Theoretically, it's a no-no in Islam (although it's very obvious to everyone except a True Believer that Mo has become idolised).

 I blame the glam-catholics for its pervasiveness in Western culture as it now manifests in celebrity culture (which, fortunately, is transient) and worse, identity politics.  Or maybe we can blame Kant with his 'Jesus as a prototype' stuff.

I also like the emphasis on self-improvement that you see in some forms of Buddhism and with the Jains.  It's a bit woo, of course, but it's not as nauseating as the airport-books, self-improvement (get-rich-quick if you're the author) industry of the West. 

And usury is another one where I think Islamic Financing wins (again, in theory only)... the 'prospector' theory of Walmart economics is harmful to communities, creates ghost towns and gives capitalism a bad name.

So, yeah, some Western values are worth defending.