Pre vs. Post Death

[RetiredArmy]

I will regret nothing after death, as "I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive." But for now I wonder how much further the human species will make it.

[account_inactive]

But I would die to keep her from being eaten by that bear even though I know that my dying means I will no longer care that she isn't going to be eaten by a bear.  

Well, no, you haven't really stopped her from getting eaten by a bear. It'll devour you and go after her, and if we're talking about bears here, that would mean you would most likely be in a forest where there is more than one bear around -- so if your daughter doesn't get killed by the same bear that ate you, she's probably gonna get killed by another one while running away.

[RetiredArmy]

Shoot the bear in the face, live longer. And speaking of bear attacks, the film "Revenant"

[account_inactive]

Shoot the bear in the face, live longer.  And speaking of bear attacks, the film "Revenant"

That would be the best solution.

[Angrboda]

Life throws itself forward in time. It is a violent reaction when that projection stops.

[vorlon13]

Well, of course, our sorrow isn't about them suffering after death, it's was just very emotional, in some cases unexpected and unfortunate to lose someone for us, they're not suffering and our way of coping is doing what we do now. It's of course just a human reaction, a good one if we don't want to be like robots and/or emotionless. I see nothing bad in sorrowing to cope and get over it, the only problem is when the sorrow goes on for too long.

If it's not about them, does the reaction make sense?  I don't respond as strongly as others to tragedy, but in the past I think "Oh, that's a bummer."  Because people only get one life to live, and losing that opportunity seems like a substantial loss.  But it's only a loss from the perspective of the living, which the people I'm supposedly mourning are not. 

To me, it seems like the focus tends to be on those killed, rather than those affected by their deaths.  I wonder if it's just framed that way so we don't feel like we're being self-centered?

...too sum up better, in regards to Orlando for example, nobody was saying "I can't believe this happened to me!" as a response to others being killed.

I wasn't comfortable discussing how I felt the AIDS crisis was affecting me while I had friends dying.  (I found out my HIV- status 2/87)

Seems odd maybe for folks not faced with it, but in 87 there wasn't much immediate counseling for people getting their test results.  I got mine over the phone at work.  The Dr. thought he was conveying 'good' news.  I had to go home (to the damn motel) immediately as I was overwhelmed with it.  In 6 months of sobriety it had never occurred to me I wasn't +.  When I found out I wasn't, the impact of realizing I was most likely going to outlive most all my friends was  devastating, but it seemed so inappropriate to even say anything about it ever.

Integrating that with my 'program' at 12 Steppers wasn't entirely successful or easy either, and the rest of the folks at the meetings didn't want to hear about AIDS or anything about the program being inadequate for dealing with it.

One time a few years ago a friend and I were discussing how many friends together we had lost to AIDS in front of his BiL. He just sat there quiet, and stiff, I could tell after a while he had no idea what J had been through and he was totally stunned by it.

In Randy Shilts book, 'And the Band Played On" he quotes someone in New York City as wondering what it felt like for a gay friend of his to have outlived 25 of his friends, and this was in the mid 80s.  Someone like me in the midwest reading that passage now, and realizing that person who had lost 25 then would be looking at a far greater toll now (assuming he survived) and then considering I've now lost 40, and J is probably double that (he refuses to list them and add it up) it's staggering what those of us left have been through.

[henryp]

But I would die to keep her from being eaten by that bear even though I know that my dying means I will no longer care that she isn't going to be eaten by a bear.  

Well, no, you haven't really stopped her from getting eaten by a bear. It'll devour you and go after her, and if we're talking about bears here, that would mean you would most likely be in a forest where there is more than one bear around -- so if your daughter doesn't get killed by the same bear that ate you, she's probably gonna get killed by another one while running away.

That's the trick though.  Once I've been eaten by a bear, what happens next is irrelevant.  My state remains the same whether she escapes or is eaten.  Sacrificing oneself has no upside, because dead people are just dead.  

It's some terminator/back to the future temporal wizardry.  I have attachments to a result that I will be ambivalent to when it occurs.

[The Grand Nudger]

The dead have no fear.

When I die, I hope they throw a hell of a party in my name. My daughter thinks I have magic. Maybe I'll never die, or it wont matter when I do? I took plenty with me.

[account_inactive]

-----

[Little lunch]

Life throws itself forward in time.  It is a violent reaction when that projection stops.

Brilliant.