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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:02 am
(July 4, 2016 at 8:24 am)Alex K Wrote: Well, humans are a part of the universe, so whatever they have, the Universe has as well by definition, so there's nothing controversial there. The real question is whether (human) consciousness is a result of the interactions of matter or transcends them somehow and is something more fundamental. Your wording begs the question that it is the latter, so what you have done here is combined one trivial claim with a bare assertion which needs to be demonstrated first.
Congratulation Alex. 
Among all the garbage of replies yours is the only one that has got some sense.
Some sense only not full sense however.
Suppose the universe doesn't have a mind behind it.
Just matter, water, energy, air and space.
How do you think that such a material composition can create something so much more superior as the
mind-consciousness in humans?
If you think so then you also can say that a chicken can give birth to a human.
It is always the great that is able to create the small not the other way around. 
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:05 am
(July 4, 2016 at 8:28 am)robvalue Wrote: Should we listen to Little Rik or Alex?
Maybe I should make a poll?
I'm going to go with Alex, Rob. Sorry Rik but there is way too much (bull) shit in your consciousness.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:09 am
(July 4, 2016 at 9:02 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is always the great that is able to create the small not the other way around.
I assume you mean this in the sense that he who deems himself to be great is the one who always makes of what is great something that is very small. And here I didn't think you had much self insight.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:12 am
Babble
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:19 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2016 at 9:20 am by Alex K.)
(July 4, 2016 at 9:02 am)Little Rik Wrote: (July 4, 2016 at 8:24 am)Alex K Wrote: Well, humans are a part of the universe, so whatever they have, the Universe has as well by definition, so there's nothing controversial there. The real question is whether (human) consciousness is a result of the interactions of matter or transcends them somehow and is something more fundamental. Your wording begs the question that it is the latter, so what you have done here is combined one trivial claim with a bare assertion which needs to be demonstrated first.
Congratulation Alex.
Among all the garbage of replies yours is the only one that has got some sense.
Some sense only not full sense however.
Suppose the universe doesn't have a mind behind it.
Just matter, water, energy, air and space.
How do you think that such a material composition can create something so much more superior as the
mind-consciousness in humans? I'm not sure, but I'm reading Dan Dennett's "consciousness explained" which I can only recommend to you as well; and I tend to agree with his ideas so far. I'll be able to articulate them more precisely when I'm done with it.
Quote:If you think so then you also can say that a chicken can give birth to a human.
It is always the great that is able to create the small not the other way around.
Even if this principle were true, which I'm not sure - greatness is a very vague measure here - is consciousness greater than the materialistic world? That seems to be an entirely subjective judgement.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:31 am
In fact it is you, little Rik, who has the downfall of not having much imagination. You can't imagine anyone thinking differently to you.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:36 am
(July 4, 2016 at 8:12 am)Little Rik Wrote: Humans are made of matter, water, energy, air, space......and.....mind-consciousness.
Universe is made of matter, water, energy, air, space and.........guess what? 
Something missing in your analysis? 
Try to think folks, maybe one day you will get there. 
In case you still can't get it LR is here 24/7 for private tuition (free of charge). 
Does the universe have eyes? Does it have a brain? Antennae?
Don't act so smart when you have trouble with logic.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:39 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2016 at 9:40 am by Whateverist.)
(July 4, 2016 at 9:36 am)Irrational Wrote: Does the universe have eyes? Does it have a brain? Antennae?
Don't act so smart when you have trouble with logic.
Some would say it has many. Of course the "it" in question is more of set name. Leastwise it is not creature-like or god-like so far as can be determined.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:44 am
(July 4, 2016 at 9:19 am)Alex K Wrote: (July 4, 2016 at 9:02 am)Little Rik Wrote: Congratulation Alex.
Among all the garbage of replies yours is the only one that has got some sense.
Some sense only not full sense however.
Suppose the universe doesn't have a mind behind it.
Just matter, water, energy, air and space.
How do you think that such a material composition can create something so much more superior as the
mind-consciousness in humans? I'm not sure, but I'm reading Dan Dennett's "consciousness explained" which I can only recommend to you as well; and I tend to agree with his ideas so far. I'll be able to articulate them more precisely when I'm done with it.
The problem with Dennett is that the guy guess.
Guessing and practicing are two different things.
Unlike guessing practicing bring up the knowledge within which many scholars called subconscious mind
or the part of the iceberg below the water but that is a different story.
I wouldn't give too much importance to people who think that the consciousness is a product of the brain
or that thanks to the brain we got the consciousness that we got.
Quote:If you think so then you also can say that a chicken can give birth to a human.
It is always the great that is able to create the small not the other way around.
Quote:Even if this principle were true, which I'm not sure - greatness is a very vague measure here - is consciousness greater than the materialistic world? That seems to be an entirely subjective judgement.
With the consciousness you can create a lot.
With the matter nothing.
Can your car create something else?
Of course not that is way that consciousness is greater.
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RE: Your lack of imagination is your defeat
July 4, 2016 at 9:55 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2016 at 9:55 am by Alex K.)
(July 4, 2016 at 9:44 am)Little Rik Wrote: (July 4, 2016 at 9:19 am)Alex K Wrote: I'm not sure, but I'm reading Dan Dennett's "consciousness explained" which I can only recommend to you as well; and I tend to agree with his ideas so far. I'll be able to articulate them more precisely when I'm done with it.
The problem with Dennett is that the guy guess.
That's just a quite ignorant and insulting statement to which I'm not interested in replying.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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