Your lack of imagination is your defeat

[Little Rik]

@This NDE business.  

What -about- an NDE account...if true (see, huge load off..no need to prove any particular), in whatever sense it is taken to be true, would suggest that mind is independent of brain?  In the sense that we percieve ourselves to be leaving our body?  I don;t need to get near death to have that experience...nor do I need to leave my body.  Creating projections, simulations, indirect models of sense data...is kind of what my mind/brain appears to be doing pretty much all the time.  That I can place myself across the room, perceptually, isn't that much different from placing a chair across the room.

In another of Rik's threads, I suggested he look into James Randi's account of his own out-of-body experience, thinking that it might stimulate Rik to reconsider his NDE hobby horse and his insistence that such unusual events 'prove' that consciousness is separate from the brain. Of course, that went unremarked. I can't say I'm surprised.

Randi.............

An other mental masturbator.........

http://www.skeptiko.com/critique-of-skeptics-guide-249/

[Little Rik]

It's not really fair on us, because whatever we say, he can just call us dumb and declare victory.

All the more reason to ignore his rambling non-sense.

Nympha.  

I am so sorry to hear that somebody force you to read my posts.
I got to do something about it.
You tell me who is that nasty person  that force you to read my post and I promise
that I will fix it up.  

[Homeless Nutter]

[Little Rik]

But what if he just goes on being wrong on the internet?!?!  Aren't we honor bound to bracket each new set of ramblings with disclaimers for the unwary public?  Not to mention .. look there he goes again!

Most of the public is not dumb whatever and it doesn't take much time to realize
how wrong you guys are.  

[Little Rik]

Yog.  


I am late for work so in these few minutes I only will answer few of your objections.

1) Let us talk about what make sense.
You mention religions.
See the Hindus.
They say that the cow is holy on the basis that give a lot of milk.
Buffaloes give more milk than cows and yet they are not holy.
Here is where the sense goes terribly wrong.

Now take the muslims.
They say that animals must be killed facing the Mecca.
They reckon is good for the animal.
Now you tell me how can be good for the poor beast whether is killed facing the Mecca or no.

You see yog how the sense is wrong?

All people need in order to find out what is wrong or right is a little bit of intuition.
Nothing more, nothing special.

Bullshit.  You didn't get your beliefs from a little bit of intuition but from Sarkar and tradition.  You have your rationalizations, they have theirs.  From my perspective your beliefs don't pass the make sense test either.  So again your 'makes sense' standard is inadequate for telling true from false.

Instead of spouting more nonsense about yoga tell what is not rational about it.
If you will be able to find any irrationality in it I will cover you in pure gold.  

More Ananda Marga bullshit.  Some atheists believe that consciousness is made up of a certain structured body of matter and energy called the brain.  When the cells of the brain die, they lose that structure, thus ending consciousness.  It makes perfect sense despite your naive objections and assertions.

Good one yog.  
So also when your car rot away you also are bound to die.  

Energy and consciousness are not two sides of the same sheet.  That's just your dogma.

Consciousness can not do without energy and energy can not do without consciousness or it would
become an out of control killer.
As we know the energy within this universe hasn't destroyed itself after billion of years.
That clearly means that energy and consciousness go hand in hand always.

Wrong again yog.  

[Alex K]

Bullshit.  You didn't get your beliefs from a little bit of intuition but from Sarkar and tradition.  You have your rationalizations, they have theirs.  From my perspective your beliefs don't pass the make sense test either.  So again your 'makes sense' standard is inadequate for telling true from false.

Instead of spouting more nonsense about yoga tell what is not rational about it.
If you will be able to find any irrationality in it I will cover you in pure gold.  

More Ananda Marga bullshit.  Some atheists believe that consciousness is made up of a certain structured body of matter and energy called the brain.  When the cells of the brain die, they lose that structure, thus ending consciousness.  It makes perfect sense despite your naive objections and assertions.

Good one yog.  
So also when your car rot away you also are bound to die.  

Energy and consciousness are not two sides of the same sheet.  That's just your dogma.

Consciousness can not do without energy and energy can not do without consciousness or it would
become an out of control killer.
As we know the energy within this universe hasn't destroyed itself after billion of years.
That clearly means that energy and consciousness go hand in hand always.

Wrong again yog.  

How long can you go dumping this garbage?

[Crossless2.0]

In another of Rik's threads, I suggested he look into James Randi's account of his own out-of-body experience, thinking that it might stimulate Rik to reconsider his NDE hobby horse and his insistence that such unusual events 'prove' that consciousness is separate from the brain. Of course, that went unremarked. I can't say I'm surprised.

Randi.............

An other mental masturbator.........

http://www.skeptiko.com/critique-of-skeptics-guide-249/

So your response is to link to a woo-peddler's self-interested critique of a podcast on which Randi happened to be one of several contributing guests? 

Way to miss the point of my suggestion, genius.

[Little Rik]

-as an example of the above.

I don't think that consciousness persists after the dissolution of the brain or in absence of the body any more than I think digital computation is possible in the absence of a digital machine, regardless of of whether or not energy - which also forms the motus of digital computation- can be destroyed.

Is consciousness energy...trivially, yes.  But that's not a complete or adequate description of consciousness from my perspective any more than "energy" is a complete description of computation.  More like, "energy flowing through a particular substrate of specific architecture".    Take away the substrate, you don't have consciousness.  Take away the architecture, you don;t have consciousness.  Take away the energy, you don't have consciousness.  If you leave just that last one, however, without the others...you -still- don't have consciousness.  It's not -just- energy floating around without structure or substrate..if it were, it's not inconceivable that a power line...... or just the static in the air.... would suddenly begin to quote shakespeare.......which it doesn't...as I'm sure I won't have to argue with anyone.

If you want a human consciousness, you need a human machine.  We have never observed a human consciousness (or any consciousness) in the absence of just such a machine. It not "out there" somewhere, independently...or at least..if it it is, no one can show it to be....while it;s trivially easy to show that it;s "in here" with reference to human machines.

A lot of confused guessing Ritmo but after that it make sense to say .........If you want a human consciousness, you need a human machine.....
A piece of puzzle will have to end up in the correct jigsaw puzzle.
No question about it.

The level consciousness determine where such a consciousness will end up.
A latent consciousness will form a rock.
A little level of consciousness a plant or tree.
More consciousness an animal.
A lot more an human body.
And total consciousness will merge in the ocean supreme consciousness and be God once again.

Nothing new about it Rit.  

[FatAndFaithless]

If we put Drich and Rik alone in a room together, would it be like a bird fighting its own reflection?

[robvalue]

Possible ancestor:

https://youtu.be/RG1P8MQS1cU