Lucifer

[purplepurpose]

I think for the souls to not be able to be conscious is merciful punishment compared torture without an end. Eternal hell idea is a tool for mind raping, there is no way around it.

  No life no punishment, this is a simple fact. You should read and study the Bible and find out what hell really is like. Each person will make their own hell according to who they were.

GC

Hell is the only way religion can justify religious masochism.

[robvalue]

Lots of lovely "obey or burn" today I see.

The glory days of Christianity.

Sadly, it's as scary as threatening an atheist with some soggy tissues. And about as graceful.

 I wasn't threatening anyone, that's your own mind deceiving you because you want to believe you were threatened. Aii I have done is state what the scriptures indicate.

GC

Yeah right. God is not here threatening us. You are. At least own it.

I don't care what a dumb book says. You are the one here telling people it is real, and that they will suffer if they don't join your cult.

[madog]

I didn't want him to make me at all, Oh he didn't ... phew ....

I know if I made a Robot and could program free will and it went out and murdered raped, etc, etc I would take responsibility for my fuck ups and not blame my creation/robot by hiding behind the fact that I gave it free will .....

I would accept that it was a fuck up to design a robot that was unsuitable to handle free will ... and realise I was not a designer worthy of being worshiped ....

 Does that mean you would take total responsibility and pay for the crimes you caused. {1} The robot could only do what you put into it, leave out the bad stuff and it couldn't do bad things. {2}
 God on the other hand did not program bad things into man, {3} Adam and Eve took it upon themselves to experience the bad side through disobedience. {4} Lucifer was the one who introduced them to the possibility of new knowledge that would elevate them to a new level, they found out that knowledge caused them to become something they never desired, lying does have consequences and they fell for it. {5}

GC

{1} Yes ... although you seem to blame your fictional Gods creations for his fuck ups 

{2} Are you claiming your fictional God didn't give us the ability to Kill and rape? Free will to one side, he even ordered man to do such things .... so he not only gave us those capabilities he ordered some men to act on those capabilities 

{3) Oh he most certainly did .... If he existed he allowed us to do anything (until man existed there was no good or bad as regards man) .... He programmed man to feel pain when they hurt themselves, but not when they hurt someone else .... in fact he programmed some men/women to feel pleasure when they hurt others  ....

{4} I would consider that as kick starting them to do bad things so he could get them to do some of the shit he got off on later in the OT ....

{5} so now you blame one of your fictional Gods creations that fucked up, for fucking up his next creation? Using one fuck up as a defense for a defense of another fuck up sort of sums up your fucked up doctrine 

[robvalue]

This is what I don't get about God and free will.

"Puny man, I am giving you the choice to worship me or not."

"OK, no thanks. I'm not going to worship you."

You'd think we'd be done here. But no.

"Since you're not going to worship me, would you like to rape people? Or set fire to houses? Or kill people with chainsaws?"

"Erm... not really, why are you offering me those things?"

[madog]

 
"Since you're not going to worship me, would you like to rape people? Or set fire to houses? Or kill people with chainsaws?"

"Erm... not really, why are you offering me those things?"

And don't forget, if you ARE going to worship me I may want you to kill and rape, pillage and plunder, enslave man, discriminate against minorities, etc in my name ...

[Lucifer]

Yes, I, Lucifer, am awesome. I think for myself and encourage others to do the same. I don't let myself get bullied into obedience, even by an all-powerful one. I want people to enjoy the pleasures that life offers.

 Even at the cost of an eternal punishment.

GC

Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to stand by your principles with those kind of consequences.

I had to fight that fear too in my process of leaving religion. Fortunately, I don't have any evidence that a hell exists (or a heaven, god, angels, demons...), so there are only benefits for me. It is the ones who stay with religion who risk losing their lives, not the ones who leave.

[purplepurpose]

This is what I don't get about God and free will.

"Puny man, I am giving you the choice to worship me or not."

"OK, no thanks. I'm not going to worship you."

You'd think we'd be done here. But no.

"Since you're not going to worship me, would you like to rape people? Or set fire to houses? Or kill people with chainsaws?"

"Erm... not really, why are you offering me those things?"

If you dont have capacity to become bad person, your robot - dead.

[purplepurpose]

This is what I don't get about God and free will.

"Puny man, I am giving you the choice to worship me or not."

"OK, no thanks. I'm not going to worship you."

You'd think we'd be done here. But no.

"Since you're not going to worship me, would you like to rape people? Or set fire to houses? Or kill people with chainsaws?"

"Erm... not really, why are you offering me those things?"

If you dont have posibility to become bad person, your robot - dead.

[LastPoet]

Lmao at the idiots living in fantasy land.

[madog]

This is what I don't get about God and free will.

"Puny man, I am giving you the choice to worship me or not."

"OK, no thanks. I'm not going to worship you."

You'd think we'd be done here. But no.

"Since you're not going to worship me, would you like to rape people? Or set fire to houses? Or kill people with chainsaws?"

"Erm... not really, why are you offering me those things?"

If you dont have capacity to become bad person, your robot - dead.

But a good designer can still give the ability to choose between good outcomes without making an unthinking robot .....

An example is pain, for example when you may want to hurt yourself .... pain dissuades you from putting your hand in a fire without removing the choice .... that could be extended to or upgraded to empathy, etc .....

A good designer has choices, doesn't appear the fictional God thought about it, probably because he is a fantasy ....