Religion and Spanking

[Joods]

I know I'm jumping in this thread late, but here's my opinion on spanking. I was beaten as a kid. Some people here know that. My mother's third husband stood six foot three and weighed at least 300 pounds. The belt he hit me with had metal grommets around the holes. Those fuckers left welts the size of half dollars on your ass if you didn't put enough underpants and sweats on to soften the blows. I was beaten with that belt for seven years while my mother did absolutely nothing. My sister did not get such treatment, for she was the golden child, the favorite.

I have only ever spanked one of my kids once. I felt so guilty about it that I cried. She's never been spanked since. Instead, I have found more creative ways of discipline. Taking away electronics is the first thing to go. The second thing to go is letting them have friends over. I have never gotten to that step. Both of my daughters are well respectable, kind and empathetic people. They know not to break the rules because there is mutual respect in my house.

I cannot say the same for my stepsons, however. Their mother, up until two years ago, regularly beat them with whatever was handy - kitchen utensils, belts, her hand etc. And she would do it in front of other people - making them bend over a chair with their bare bottoms exposed. The last beating the oldest one got was when he was 12. It was so bad that when he came to us on the weekend, he told us that he did not want to go back to his mother because she scared him. Needless to say, we called the police and the officer was concerned enough that he got CPS involved. We neded up getting a restraining order against her for a month. She now has a permanent, partial PFA in place, where she is not to use any form of corporal punishment on the boys whatsoever.

We don't use physical forms of discipline in our house no matter what. No matter how bad a kid is acting up, we find ways to deal with it without the use of hitting, beating, spanking etc. Because of this, both boys want to come live with us. They see their mother as a tyrant and they have no respect for her. I can certainly understand why - from living that myself as a kid and through what I have seen of that woman's behavior, as well.

Physical discipline is, in my opinion, completely unnecessary. Especially in this day and age when there are so many other ways to discipline.

[Jehanne]

This is animal abuse; I hope that you die and your dogs eat your corpse.

 Ah, a softy who has probably lost a dog due to playing in the street. I do not abuse my dogs I discipline them for extremely bad behavior. My dogs love me and obey me to please me, a trait of the domesticated dog, wild dogs do the same thing if they run in a pack.

GC

I don't that you will find many veterinarians or other experts in animal physiology who would agree with you!  By, that's typical of you, GC; you embrace Christian fundamentalist bullshit, notwithstanding that there are no respectable scholars anywhere in the World that hold to such nonsense.

[Jehanne]

Did the fire department save your home?

Yes it's still there today after all these years.

That's great that they were able to respond in time to save it!  Not to derail this thread but we had a neighbor a few blocks away who lost their entire home even though at least one fire house is within a mile of where we live, but I digress.

[Jehanne]

Dogs have no concept of the consequences of actions, you fucking moron. From their point of view you're just hurting them for no reason. Please stop doing it.

 Listen you little twit I been training dogs for over 30 years and I'm considered quite good, dogs do have an understanding of doing wrong and they show it effectively. You're the moron for not researching what dogs understand and what they do not and I bet your dogs don't obey you one bit, you're probably one of those who have to call their dog a dozen times just to get it's attention, not good around a busy road, and you probably consider that obedience, sad. When I come home and one of my dogs have made a mess I know it immediately from the look on their face and their reaction when I ask what happened all this before I enter the door. Oh hey, no, I spank my dogs very seldom.

GC

I am glad, GC, that you are now a materialist who rejects any notion of substance dualism.

[Losty]

Yes it's still there today after all these years.

That's great that they were able to respond in time to save it!  Not to derail this thread but we had a neighbor a few blocks away who lost their entire home even though at least one fire house is within a mile of where we live, but I digress.

My dad, grandpa, and uncles had to rebuild my room my parents room and the bathroom but it turned out for the best really because our bathroom was so tiny and they built it on much bigger the second time. That's sad about your neighbor's house

[Godscreated]

[...]When I come home and one of my dogs have made a mess I know it immediately from the look on their face and their reaction when I ask what happened all this before I enter the door. [...]

LOLOLOLOL...

You ask them what happened? What kind of moron are you? Oh, right - the kind that believes in talking donkeys and snakes... So, Dr. Dolittle - what do they say in reply?

Sure - dogs can associate physical violence with certain behaviors (although you can achieve the same results using other deterrents, like strong scent in a spray bottle), but unless you catch the dog in the act - they have no f*cking idea what you're punishing them for. Many dog owners imagine they can see "shame", or "guilt" on their dog's faces, but that's just projection and confirmation bias on your part. I have no doubt, that they can be afraid of you and behave submissively, when they can sense anger in your tone (for example when you start angrily interrogating them), but they don't follow your logic, because - and I know this is going to be difficult to believe, but bear with me - dogs are dumber than even you.

I grew up in the country-side. I've seen enough cruelty, to become somewhat desensitized, so if you want to punch your dog for making a mess - be my guest, let off some steam. But you're kidding yourself if you think, that dogs have a concept of "guilt", or "sin", or that they understand what you're saying to them.

And of course - dogs will "love" you regardless, because they don't really have a choice - it's their evolutionary instinct to submit to a pack leader and they've been bred over thousands of years to submit to humans. I've seen dogs starved half to death, tied with a piece of wire to a metal barrel, which was their "doghouse" and regularly kicked and beaten by their alcoholic owners, whom they still adored. Dogs and religious people share this tragic tendency to give up dignity and replace it with servility...

http://www.sciencealert.com/dogs-may-loo...xperts-say

According to veterinary scientist Susan Hazel, the fact that dogs may look ashamed to us after we’ve caught them doing something bad says a lot more about our relationships with our pets than it does about their ability to feel complicated emotions such as guilt.

“There’s been a number of studies done and it’s pretty clear that dogs don’t feel or display guilt,” Hazel told Simon Royal at the ABC. “It’s not the way their brains work.”

 Well all I have to say to you and the vet your both stupid,I've trained dogs for 30 years and I understand them quite well, buzz off.

GC

[Godscreated]

 Listen you little twit I been training dogs for over 30 years and I'm considered quite good, dogs do have an understanding of doing wrong and they show it effectively. You're the moron for not researching what dogs understand and what they do not and I bet your dogs don't obey you one bit, you're probably one of those who have to call their dog a dozen times just to get it's attention, not good around a busy road, and you probably consider that obedience, sad. When I come home and one of my dogs have made a mess I know it immediately from the look on their face and their reaction when I ask what happened all this before I enter the door. Oh hey, no, I spank my dogs very seldom.

GC

Hey GC, my uncle has owned and trained dogs for over 30 years, and every one of them has been so well-behaved he could let them off the leash in his open front yard in front of a street and they still wouldn't venture out of the boundaries set for them.

He's never laid a hand on a single dog.

The fact that you believe a dog cannot learn without being struck quite frankly disgusts me to the core.

 I don't care if your disgusted, I've shown dogs for trials and have done very well and have never lost a dog to cars not to say I want anything can happen in an instant. Who said I spanked my dogs for running in the street, I didn't. I said I spanked for extreme disobedience. Buss off.

GC

[Godscreated]

 Ah, a softy who has probably lost a dog due to playing in the street. I do not abuse my dogs I discipline them for extremely bad behavior. My dogs love me and obey me to please me, a trait of the domesticated dog, wild dogs do the same thing if they run in a pack.

GC

To please you? You're so weird. Dogs are very very easy to train via positive reinforcement. There's really no excuse for hitting a dog other than being a lazy asshole.

 Lazy, what an idiot you are you have no idea as to what type of training I've done. I use to spend about 1000 hours on a dog for advanced obedience and I'v trained for protection work which is highly involved training. My dogs were trained with English, German and sign language. When one owns Rottweilers one has a responsibility to have great control over them, to protect other people and the dogs. Buzz off you know nothing about being a responsible dog owner.

GC

[Godscreated]

 Ah, a softy who has probably lost a dog due to playing in the street. I do not abuse my dogs I discipline them for extremely bad behavior. My dogs love me and obey me to please me, a trait of the domesticated dog, wild dogs do the same thing if they run in a pack.

GC

I don't that you will find many veterinarians or other experts in animal physiology who would agree with you!  By, that's typical of you, GC; you embrace Christian fundamentalist bullshit, notwithstanding that there are no respectable scholars anywhere in the World that hold to such nonsense.

 I was teaching people things about dogs and their behavior many years ago, science is starting to find out what myself and other quality trainers already knew. What does Christianity have to do with dog training. Buzz off.

GC

[TubbyTubby]

Hey GC, my uncle has owned and trained dogs for over 30 years, and every one of them has been so well-behaved he could let them off the leash in his open front yard in front of a street and they still wouldn't venture out of the boundaries set for them.

He's never laid a hand on a single dog.

The fact that you believe a dog cannot learn without being struck quite frankly disgusts me to the core.

 I don't care if your disgusted, I've shown dogs for trials and have done very well and have never lost a dog to cars not to say I want anything can happen in an instant. Who said I spanked my dogs for running in the street, I didn't. I said I spanked for extreme disobedience. Buss off.

GC

So we can add dogs, as well as god to topics that GC is the ultimate authority on and can't be questioned. I doubt it will ever happen GC but even a hint of humility would be refreshing now and again.

Oh and the word you need is 'won't' not 'want'. Remember?