I'm not afraid of terrorism, are you?

[henryp]

Another aspect of this, is just because it isn't a huge problem or likely to effect an individual personally doesn't mean it should just be ignored.  I don't think I'm going to get struck by lightning if I stay outdoors in a storm.  But I go inside still, because there's no reason to take the risk.  

Looking at the Syrian refugee situation for example, there's a low chance it results in even a single terrorist attack.  But it's reasonable for that to be enough of a reason to balk at bringing the refugees over.  

I still don't want terrorist attacks in the US regardless of how low of a priority or worried I am about the issue.

[RobertE]

No, terrorists don't terrify or frighten me. I will not hide or cower just because some political or religious thugs believe I should.

Edit to add: I lived in London in the early-mid 90s when the IRA regularly set off bombs in public places, killing regular citizens. I was in the West End when I heard a massive bomb explode in The City a few miles away - I heard on the news the next day that it was the largest bomb to explode on mainland Britain since WWII.
Still not scared.

Unfortunately, you are misinformed. The largest bomb to have ever exploded on mainland United Kingdom was the bomb back in Manchester, 1996. This fact can be checked and verified.

[CapnAwesome]

If you look at the number of deaths, there are just so many larger problems that we could proportionally be using our resources to fight.

You are right to point out the economic cost and diverted resources of a "War on Terror." At the same time, death by terrorism is not the only metric. There are serious problems with making accommodations to Islamic cultures in the name of religious tolerance like recognizing parallel legal systems (sharia courts), prosecuting critics of Islam as hate-speech (Mark Steyn), the self-censorship by politically correct media (Danish cartoons). To my mind, its all part of the same problem.

Well see, this is where you drift from talking about terrorism to talking about Islam in general. Almost nobody is a bigger critic of Islam then me. If you read my opening post you see I distinguish between the two and I think they should be distinguished between. The 'war on terror' isn't a war on radical Islam. However secularism, free speech and liberty is the best way to fight radical Islam.

[The Grand Nudger]

Refugees are -fleeing- a shitty situation, not looking to create one.  A terrorist will get into this country no matter -what- you do...and tbh I don't know why we fear foreign terrorists entirely out of proportion to their contribution.  Americans have committed more acts of terrorism on american soil, and taken more american lives.  It's not even close, and it never has been.....even -since- 9/11 it's 2/1.

Right wing anti government loons and racists are what we ought to be quivering about.  They're who we ought to be "doing something" about.  They're who we ought to be "looking into".  They're who the media should be running non-stop exposes on.   They're already here, they;ve always been here, already doing shitty things...they're better at it, and always have been, than the current boogeymen. But no, no.....let's implicate refugees....victims.  Let's be afraid of that.  That's where the danger is...........that's the face of evil.  

Whatever happened to giving us your tired, your poor, your hungry? What kind of america are we seeking to defend by pointing the fickle finger, and centering our irrational fears around refugees ?

[henryp]

Refugees are -fleeing- a shitty situation, not looking to create one.  A terrorist will get into this country no matter -what- you do...and tbh I don't know why we fear foreign terrorists entirely out of proportion to their contribution.  Americans have committed more acts of terrorism on american soil, and taken more american lives.  It's not even close, and it never has been.....even -since- 9/11 it's 2/1.

Right wing anti government loons and racists are what we ought to be quivering about.  They're who we ought to be "doing something" about.  They're who we ought to be "looking into".  They're who the media should be running non-stop exposes on.   They're already here, they;ve always been here, already doing shitty things...they're better at it, and always have been, than the current boogeymen.  But no, no.....let's implicate refugees....victims.  Let's be afraid of that.  That's where the danger is...........that's the face of evil.  

Whatever happened to giving us your tired, your poor, your hungry?  What kind of america are we seeking to defend by pointing the fickle finger, and centering our irrational fears around refugees ?

I think "Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry" is outdated like most of the things from horsey riding days.  The US has all the tired, poor, and hungry it needs.  Back when we were filling up the country, and building the infrastructure, and getting the industrial revolution going.  Sure.  Send us a bunch of people, we'll hook them up with crazy difficult/dangerous jobs building a railroad 14 hours a day or working in a mine, and in exchange, they can start a little life here.  

Those days are gone, and then some. 

As for foreign terrorists fears.  It's not fears, it's practicality.  Germany just had a refugee go bonkers 1 day ago.  Why take the risk?  It's like picking up hitchhikers.  And of course, keep an eye on anti-government loons.  I assume/hope they are being watched.  And it'll be easier to do, when the govt doesn't have to split up resources keep an eye on a bunch of refugees as well.  Alas, those crazy right-wing folks are our loons, and I don't think other countries will let us deport them to their land.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Nah, we all get our ticket punched one day. Made my peace with dying a long time ago ... much more concerned about living instead. Here in America the odds of me getting caight in a terror attack are vanishingly small.

The effect of terror isn't just a mass murder thing. Stomping down the big terrorist threats discredits the violent ideology that is a widespread personal threat to individual freedoms.

The sad thing to me is how we eroded our own individual freedoms ourselves in the name of stopping that threat to our freedoms (as you put it).

[The Grand Nudger]

I think "Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry" is outdated like most of the things from horsey riding days.  The US has all the tired, poor, and hungry it needs.  Back when we were filling up the country, and building the infrastructure, and getting the industrial revolution going.  Sure.  Send us a bunch of people, we'll hook them up with crazy difficult/dangerous jobs building a railroad 14 hours a day or working in a mine, and in exchange, they can start a little life here.  

I think this is probably an intractable difference of opinion between us.  Were it not for immigrants our population would be in decline, our productivity would be in decline, and we'd stagnate culturally.  

Those days are gone, and then some. 

Then so is any america worth defending with -my- life, or anyone's life I'd set orders to, from terrorists or anyone else.  Again..probably an intractable difference of opinion.  

As for foreign terrorists fears.  It's not fears, it's practicality.  Germany just had a refugee go bonkers 1 day ago.  Why take the risk?  It's like picking up hitchhikers.  And of course, keep an eye on anti-government loons.  I assume/hope they are being watched.  And it'll be easier to do, when the govt doesn't have to split up resources keep an eye on a bunch of refugees as well.  Alas, those crazy right-wing folks are our loons, and I don't think other countries will let us deport them to their land.

It can't be practicality, in the US context.  Practicality would see us leveraging our fears and efforts towards the threat that's twice as great...rather than ignoring it and losing our shit over refugees, who aren't even terrorists to begin with.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Meh, not to me its not.  Full disclosure..I'm a junkie for morbidity and mortality weekly.  No one asked whether we -cared- about terrorism, they asked whether or not we feared it.  Well, I've seen it's face...and it's about as frightening as an IT guy named Jamal....and no less random than being hit by a car...so.....

Thing about threats is, their underlying causes matter. If these same terrorists that aren't a big threat to you right now might get their hands on a better technology of warfare suddenly you'd have a significantly increased fear of terrorism. Just goes to show you didn't think it through. This is why we're more afraid of terrorists than other societal dangers, apart from the fact that fucking savages shoot masses of people in the civilised world every month or so.

This board man, I've never before seen so many regressives in one place.

Fear is an irrational response. I see no reason to give it hold over me. I'll keep living as I would normally, and not worry about what I cannot control.

[henryp]

I don't think the US government is ignoring home-grown terrorism. But they are Americans, so keeping an eye on them is all you can do. It's not like we can ship them to Mexico.

And there's nothing wrong with immigration. My neighborhood is probably 60%+ from India working in the tech industry. Importing a skilled worker vs. importing a refugee. Which is preferable without even addressing terrorism? Then you add in the current ISIS nonsense, a dash of cultural awfulness, the difficulty in assimilation, and it's just common sense to take a pass on adding those people to the fold.

An aside, I'm not defending anything other than my immediate family with my life. I find the idea preposterous.

[The Grand Nudger]

Mexico wouldn't take them...but we have plenty of for profit prisons that would. The minute you start referring to people like importable commodities, you've lost me...and it's not like that refugee can't get a cheap ass comp sci degree......

Assimilation? There is no difficulty in assimilation (and let;s just ignore that all we';re saying here is...."but they're sooooo different ). The us is one of the most pervasively assimilating countries the world has ever seen. A few short generations later and they're buying pop hits off their i-phone as they sit in the mcdonalds drive-thru. Hell, our entire culture is -based- on re-appropriation. A kebob (pronounced: KAY-bob..lol) joint just opened out here..in rural eastern kentucky, and it;s got more necks in and out than the fried chicken joint. You'd swear that these old boys had suckled on the shit. The proprietors have even learned our language, yalls an all.