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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 1:50 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 12:05 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote: Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation. My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means. That is what I don't buy. If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us. Your thoughts?
Exactly. And taking it a step further if I could, how does one go about distinguishing between the two? By what methodology does one differentiate an unusual natural event with a yet-undiscovered natural explanation, from a "supernatural" event with NO natural explanation?
As a great philosopher once said:
![[Image: bill-oreilly-at-his-best.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fblogs%2Fwwjtd%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F11%2Fbill-oreilly-at-his-best.jpg)
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 2:36 pm
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2016 at 2:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 7, 2016 at 10:11 am)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 9:05 am)Rhythm Wrote: According to -you-. Unless, as we've seen...you do, in fact, accept abiogenesis. Godlife is life that didn't come from life, isn't it?
Now you know yourself and your beliefs better than you did before. You're welcome.
Not how It works buddy, the "genesis" in 'abiogenesis' means "beginning".
God is eternal
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/eternal
Quote:1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):
So if God did not have a beginning how do you figure he is a result of abiogenesis?
Also; I see you're still into playing silly games rather than actually trying to have a discussion. Didn't I just tell you to look up what the word eternal meant before you posted that nonsense? Just couldn't help yourself could you? If godlife didn't come from life...and as you said how could it-being eternal and all, then..again...abiogenesis. Go google the name of whatever bit of science it is that's got your panties up and we can -have- a discussion. Butchering words won't get us there.
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote: (September 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Then, by that definition, things which were formally considered supernatural transform into natural phenomenon just as soon as science catches up with them? If that is all there is to the supernatural, why not just use "unexplained"?
Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation. My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means. That is what I don't buy. If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us. Your thoughts?
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:17 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote: Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation. My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means. That is what I don't buy. If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us. Your thoughts?
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
One wouldn't. One would explain it as legend.
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The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:30 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote: Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation. My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means. That is what I don't buy. If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us. Your thoughts?
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
For any discussion regarding "cause" to be meaningful you'd have to demonstrate that it actually happened first...
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:32 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote: Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation. My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means. That is what I don't buy. If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us. Your thoughts?
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
Wait....
You actually have demonstrable evidence that Jesus walled on water?!
Probably about the same level of evidence for Mohamed flying to Heaven on a winged horse, right?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:33 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:30 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
For any discussion regarding "cause" to be meaningful you'd have to demonstrate that it actually happened first...
Well, shit, LFC, it's in a book. A special book! My special book! So of course it's true, unlike those other fanciful books I don't think are special. 
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:40 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
I would explain it the same as Yoda raising Luke's X-Wing from the swamp.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 4:50 pm
(September 7, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not at home and may not be for a couple of days.
However the short answer to your question is the supernatural is that which defy natural laws.
An example of that would be Jesus walking on water. How will one ever explain that according to the laws of physics?
Wait....
You actually have demonstrable evidence that Jesus walled on water?!
Probably about the same level of evidence for Mohamed flying to Heaven on a winged horse, right?
I gave you an EXAMPLE of what would be considered supernatural. Whether you believe it happend or not is irrelevant.
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RE: The "Cultural Context" Excuse
September 7, 2016 at 6:12 pm
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2016 at 6:13 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 7, 2016 at 4:50 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 7, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Wait....
You actually have demonstrable evidence that Jesus walled on water?!
Probably about the same level of evidence for Mohamed flying to Heaven on a winged horse, right?
I gave you an EXAMPLE of what would be considered supernatural. Whether you believe it happend or not is irrelevant.
How would you demonstrate that this was indeed a supernatural event, as opposed to an advanced race using a (non-supernatural) technology that is currently unknown to us?
And no, I am not saying that such a advanced race does indeed exist, only asking how you would go about ruling that possibility out.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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