(September 6, 2016 at 8:50 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The fact that it's unexplainable is why it's defined as supernatural...

(September 6, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 6, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Are you going to throw a tempter tantrum when I hold you to this living god business, like you did when I held you to the snakeman?  If god's a living thing...and you don't believe in abiogenesis....I have questions.  

Cheifly, where did -that- life come from?  There must be a living source for godlife, something it came from, or else were still talking abiogenesis.

*emphasis mine*

According to what?

Also look up the definition of 'eternal'.

(September 6, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 6, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Are you going to throw a tempter tantrum when I hold you to this living god business, like you did when I held you to the snakeman?  If god's a living thing...and you don't believe in abiogenesis....I have questions.  

Cheifly, where did -that- life come from?  There must be a living source for godlife, something it came from, or else were still talking abiogenesis.

*emphasis mine*

According to what?

Also look up the definition of 'eternal'.

(September 7, 2016 at 9:05 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(September 6, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*

According to what?

Also look up the definition of 'eternal'.

According to -you-.  Unless, as we've seen...you do, in fact, accept abiogenesis.  Godlife is life that didn't come from life, isn't it?

Now you know yourself and your beliefs better than you did before.  You're welcome.

Quote:1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):

(September 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(September 6, 2016 at 8:50 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The fact that it's unexplainable is why it's defined as supernatural...

Then, by that definition, things which were formally considered supernatural transform into natural phenomenon just as soon as science catches up with them?  If that is all there is to the supernatural, why not just use "unexplained"?

(September 7, 2016 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(September 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Then, by that definition, things which were formally considered supernatural transform into natural phenomenon just as soon as science catches up with them?  If that is all there is to the supernatural, why not just use "unexplained"?

Just going to bump this Huggy because I'd really like to know if you think of the 'supernatural' as something forever unexplainable by natural means or if you think of it as something which so far is with out natural explanation.  My impression is that many theists think of it in the first way, as though God just operates through pure intentional magic for which His will is both the way and the means.  That is what I don't buy.  If there were gods I would assume they are savvy to some know how that escapes us.  Your thoughts?

(July 25, 2016 at 11:18 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, I've been debating a Christian on another site (not an atheist site, but the topic of religion come up and I just couldn't help myself [emoji6]) regarding those verses in Deuteronomy that detail stoning your rebellious child to death.  

I don't understand the apologist rebuttal to the above mentioned verses (and so many others like it in the OT):  'you have to understand the Hebrew culture back then.  If you understand their culture, you'll see it's not really as bad as it sounds.'

Let's consider a couple definitions of "culture":

1. The beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time.

2.  A particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc

It's textually pretty straight forward that the beliefs and customs of the Jews' culture were quite literally commanded upon them through a series of direct orders from God himself.  All laws governing right from wrong, even the most mundane details of day-to-day living (like which animals were clean to eat, and which types of garments were okay to wear) were handed down to the Jews DIRECTLY from God, through Moses.  God goes so far as to impose a punishment of death onto those who dare disobey His theocratic governing rules.  'You'd better worship me, and only me, or I will kill you.  You better follow these rules, or I will kill you.  You'd better live this particular way, and do these particular things, or I will kill you.'  

He could have sent his special folks forward into the world to live amongst others with the most perfectly empathetic and humanistic ideals.  He could have commanded Mosaic laws such as:

1. Don't murder other people for their land and property

2. Woman are autonomous humans and shall be treated as such

3. Don't ever enslave another human being

3.  Under no circumstances is a child is to be put to death as criminal punishment

So, we are going to point the finger at the Israelites' marginally civilized, and aggressive Patriarchal culture as the reason for needing such harsh deterrents in place like stoning your kids to death, then we MUST also point the finger at a marginally civilized and aggressive God for cultivating his people's culture that way in the first place!

Christians are left with two explanations that I can see:  either Jewish culture was barbaric because Yahweh was barbaric (and not omnibenevolent) or Yahweh wasn't powerful enough to set forth a more civilized group of people (and not omnipotent).  

[emoji848]

(Oh, and of course, obvious option number three that no Christian will ever select:  the bible is not actually god's word.  [emoji6])

(September 7, 2016 at 12:25 pm)ScienceAf Wrote:

(July 25, 2016 at 11:18 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, I've been debating a Christian on another site (not an atheist site, but the topic of religion come up and I just couldn't help myself [emoji6]) regarding those verses in Deuteronomy that detail stoning your rebellious child to death.  

I don't understand the apologist rebuttal to the above mentioned verses (and so many others like it in the OT):  'you have to understand the Hebrew culture back then.  If you understand their culture, you'll see it's not really as bad as it sounds.'

Let's consider a couple definitions of "culture":

1. The beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time.

2.  A particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc

It's textually pretty straight forward that the beliefs and customs of the Jews' culture were quite literally commanded upon them through a series of direct orders from God himself.  All laws governing right from wrong, even the most mundane details of day-to-day living (like which animals were clean to eat, and which types of garments were okay to wear) were handed down to the Jews DIRECTLY from God, through Moses.  God goes so far as to impose a punishment of death onto those who dare disobey His theocratic governing rules.  'You'd better worship me, and only me, or I will kill you.  You better follow these rules, or I will kill you.  You'd better live this particular way, and do these particular things, or I will kill you.'  

He could have sent his special folks forward into the world to live amongst others with the most perfectly empathetic and humanistic ideals.  He could have commanded Mosaic laws such as:

1. Don't murder other people for their land and property

2. Woman are autonomous humans and shall be treated as such

3. Don't ever enslave another human being

3.  Under no circumstances is a child is to be put to death as criminal punishment

So, we are going to point the finger at the Israelites' marginally civilized, and aggressive Patriarchal culture as the reason for needing such harsh deterrents in place like stoning your kids to death, then we MUST also point the finger at a marginally civilized and aggressive God for cultivating his people's culture that way in the first place!

Christians are left with two explanations that I can see:  either Jewish culture was barbaric because Yahweh was barbaric (and not omnibenevolent) or Yahweh wasn't powerful enough to set forth a more civilized group of people (and not omnipotent).  

[emoji848]

(Oh, and of course, obvious option number three that no Christian will ever select:  the bible is not actually god's word.  [emoji6])

Preach*