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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 10:53 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 6:20 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (July 25, 2016 at 6:04 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Having said that, I think the DNC's behavior in regard to Bernie, as revealed by the leaked emails, is disgraceful. I am not inclined to reward Clinton or the Democratic party for this scandalous treatment of Bernie particularly and progressives generally. But that's easy for me to say because I live in a state that almost certainly will go Republican in the general election. However, if the polls in Louisiana appear to be close come November, you can bet your ass I'll vote for Clinton. Anything to keep Trump out of office.
(emphasis added)
Indeed. While I'm personally going to do what I must to ensure Trump doesn't win my state if it looks to be even remotely close come November, I'm going to remember this election - the DNC needs to fix their shit, sooner rather than later. This kind of corrupt, undemocratic nonsense doesn't belong in any US political party, much less one with "Democratic" in the title. Those responsible should be ashamed of themselves.
Unfortunately, this rubbish has been going on forever, the only difference now is that there are digital footprints. The wealthy elite in both major parties are the ones making the decisions that ensure they stay on top and that they screw over us peasants.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 10:56 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 5:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It's finally dawning on him what an arrogant bunch of shits made up his fan club!
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36889960
Quote:Bernie Sanders booed for praising Clinton
This could be one of those rare cases where the candidate is actually superior to his backers.
Not really. Those supporters weren't there because they thought Bernie was the best chance for a Dems win. They were there because he stood for things-- things for which Hillary does NOT stand. Him giving in to party politics represents a sellout.
Note that the Green party leader offered Sanders her seat, or at least said he should run for it. He could be a MAJOR third-party candidate, but instead he has decided to play the Dems game and support Hillary.
I think this is the first dishonorable thing he's done in his campaign, and those booing clearly feel the same way.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 10:58 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 10:40 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Which establishment values are not worth uniting over?
Easy. I disagree with their policy of accepting big-business money in their campaign, when they are supposed to be representing the little guy. Conflict of interests much?
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 11:00 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 7:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Then elect Trump. Enjoy what he does to the country. You'll have to live with it a lot longer than I will.
I don't think a vote is meant to control who gets elected. It's meant to voice one's opinion over the best policies, and best leader. Therefore, I think that Bernie supporters should vote for a 3rd part, even though this is likely to give Trump the win.
Let Trump thrash around for a while. I think it is likely to be the last 4 years the Republicans EVER see, and I think the next election, there WILL be a viable 3rd-party candidate.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 11:12 pm
Bernie is giving a great speech.
I hope his fucking fans pay attention.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 25, 2016 at 11:23 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 11:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Bernie is giving a great speech.
I hope his fucking fans pay attention.
He's giving a fantastic speech.
My family are still going to vote Gary Johnson. I want to see a third party in the debates. Massachusetts will vote Clinton regardless, so this is the chance for anyone in "safe" states who don't like the two options we've been given to make a stand and vote third party.
If I was in a swing state, I might be convinced to vote for Clinton, but I doubt it. I just don't trust her.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 26, 2016 at 12:46 am
(July 25, 2016 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (July 25, 2016 at 10:40 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Which establishment values are not worth uniting over?
Easy. I disagree with their policy of accepting big-business money in their campaign, when they are supposed to be representing the little guy. Conflict of interests much?
Agreed. But you have to play the game to change it. Clinton, and more importantly the rising tide of progressive senators/congressmen, want a constitutional amendment for campaign finance, and a repeal of Citizen's United. It is clear that there is implicit quid pro quo in corporate donations to candidates. It is also clear that a grassroots popular campaign is not only possible, but very successful.
So make sure you get to those down ballots for progressive candidates.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 26, 2016 at 2:34 am
How Hillary could have won if she did these things
1. Not taking money from corporate interests because
2. If a large majority want change get this then give them the change they want
not what a corporate interest want's
3. If she knew the DNC was plotting a biased campaign against Bernie she should have said something
4. The woman card i get it you want to be the first female US president but get this there was already woman
in history that was running for president there is even Jill Stein and her platform is amazing as well as the rest
of the green party.
5. Honesty..... enough said
6. Don't pander to the voters or use television commercials aimed at children because children cannot vote politics
it's a adult thing this is why children cannot vote.
Granted if she followed at least a few of what i listed she would be off in a better position than now.... i will go for party unity
only in reality 4 years of trump would be horrible but it doesn't mean i am voting for Hillary i will gladly toss my vote at third party.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 26, 2016 at 11:24 am
(This post was last modified: July 26, 2016 at 11:24 am by Crossless2.0.)
(July 25, 2016 at 7:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote: Having said that, I think the DNC's behavior in regard to Bernie, as revealed by the leaked emails, is disgraceful.
Why? What is "disgraceful" about the DNC trying to elect a democrat instead of a lifelong independent who decided to make a run in the only possible place which would tolerate him? Did the RNC unite to assist Drumpf? I think not. It really is time to learn what a political "party" is and what it is not.
Sanders has shown a lot more common sense than his backers.
As others have pointed out, it's the DNC's flouting of its own rules that is disgraceful. This has fuck-all to do with the party leadership trying to elect a Democrat as opposed to a lifelong independent. There were other Democrats with establishment bona fides in the race before Sanders ate them for breakfast, and they apparently didn't have this kind of backstage 'assistance' to discredit their progressive rival's campaign. To put the most charitable interpretation on this as I can, this was about Sanders's perceived un-electability in November. Elements of the party leadership circled the wagons to help nominate the one person they thought could win against the GOP. Whether Sanders was really un-electable in the general election is debatable, but I can at least understand the thinking here, since I too had my doubts about his prospects should he have won the nomination. Nevertheless, that is no reason for the party leadership to violate the neutrality they were supposed to uphold. This was supposed to be about what the voters decided. Candidates and their campaign staffs can come up with their own talking points; it's not the job of the damn referees.
Less charitably, I could speculate that the presence of a real progressive, running independently of the party machinery and money men, was an embarrassment to the DNC, as it exposed their preferred candidate as a compromised centrist in the pockets of Wall Street and other special interests. Is Clinton better than the GOP's offerings? Yes, of course, but that's a pretty fucking low bar to clear. It's hard for such a person to claim the progressive high ground when the real deal is nipping at her heels at every turn. Shit, the Democrats had a collective meltdown after Nader drained away just enough votes from Gore to put the 2000 race up for grabs and into the hands of the Supreme Court. That was bad enough. But a Nader-type candidate in their own tent, threatening not merely to peel away some votes but to actually win the nomination? Perish the thought!
I'm on board with Clinton. She has a wealth of experience to bring to bear. She is bright as hell. And she is so obviously superior to Trump in every respect that it doesn't even merit debate, as far as I'm concerned. But she is shady. She does drag a lot of unnecessary baggage into the proceedings that the GOP can use to muddy the waters. And I am concerned about her commitment to enacting many of the progressive planks she and Bernie supposedly now agree upon.
As I said, I may be able to have my cake and eat it too: if a vote for Hillary looks doomed to irrelevance here in Louisiana, I won't lose any sleep about making a protest vote against the Democrats and their machinations. If the polls are close, I won't hesitate to vote for Clinton.
Frankly, Min, I'm surprised you are not outraged at the DNC's wanting to make Bernie's alleged atheism an issue. What the fuck?!? Or is your outrage over religious bigotry only reserved for low-stakes games on internet websites?
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RE: Poor Bernie.
July 26, 2016 at 11:41 am
I supported him and yeah, I'd boo him too for praising that war monger. It's about the principles, not the man.
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