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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 4, 2016 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2016 at 1:03 am by robvalue.)
I'm sorry to hear this 
All I can say is that I think actively trying to deconvert someone is a bad idea in general, and even worse when you're in a relationship with them. It's going to fail, most of the time, and cause bad feelings. The person has to want to properly analyse their beliefs, and this isn't something you can force. You can sow seeds and you can be there if he wants to discuss.
I would say you need to accept him as he is, or move on. I agree with you, I couldn't be with someone who values an imaginary friend over me. Why would anyone do that, anyway? What does God need exactly? From anyone? You can safely put him bottom of all priorities and he should be able to take care of himself.
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 12:34 am
Very sorry JojoP,
The first thing that sprung into my mind was to ask him why god and jesus gave you cancer. You know.. Put a bit of shock into him like a verbal bucket of ice water.
Why does god allow innocent children to suffer? Why does god allow the cruel who prey upon the weak to thrive and flourish. Why does god cause good people to suffer due to flood, fire, famine, disease, and poverty? Why is god allowing the earth to become polluted? Isn't god ultimately responsible for what we, the children, do. Would a good parent allow their children to kill and maim each other for the sake of some nebulous lesson? Free will my ass.
It's this line of thinking that made me an Atheist in my pre-teens. What kind of god allows this to happen?
The Abrahamic god is like the abusive father who locks his kids in a shitty closet, and then tells them that they will go do Disneyland if they do what he says. Except he doesn't really come out and says what he wants. Instead, it's the housekeeper who passes a note under the door with a list of demands.
This probably isn't very helpful, but I understand where you are coming from. It's hard to love someone when you don't respect them.
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 7:41 am
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2016 at 7:41 am by Fake Messiah.)
(August 4, 2016 at 8:00 am)Irrational Wrote: Why the emphasis on his beliefs anyway? There's more to a happy relationship/bond than anything to do with religious beliefs.
ahem
![[Image: AkPTVK5.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com%2FAkPTVK5.jpg)
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 7:50 am
Thank you everyone for your replies...I agree with both sides that have been presented, I can see good points in every answer to one degree or another. As an atheist I have always tried not to push my views onto others, not wanting to do exactly what I hate about religion...this time I am seriously worried about someone I love, and most of the time I just get on with it and let him go through whatever it is he is going through, hoping that I will get him back at sometime in the future. If I had met a Christian I would have firstly not pursued it, but if I did I wouldn't have tried to change their world view...I would have known it was a futile endeavour.
I absolutely do love him for who he is, I just know that this new part ISN'T who he is...due to my serious illness he has looked for comfort in the easiest place which just happened to be the only church his friends went to...if he had Buddhist friends, or goddess worshipping friends he would have gone to seek comfort from them instead.
I know that he has questions that he can't find answers for, he is a very open minded and sensitive person and so he doesn't understand why the bible talks of such things as homosexuality and transgenderism as abominations and why god allows so much suffering. But he just says he doesn't know the answers and unfortunately he's talked to Christian elders who say that it's ok to be gay etc because it's applicable to our times...oh the hipocrisy! So these picky bible followers are making him feel that it's ok to just choose which parts of the bible you can believe, giving him free license to be an unquestioning Christian...
He has agreed to watch a documentary made by an ex evangelical minister about his conversion to atheism which I've seen and it is very respectful...I've also got an arsenal of verses that highlight bible contradictions and the evils in the New Testament, which he's willing to look at in his own bible...
I guess de-convert was a bad choice of words, and of course I don't actually want to use mind techniques on him...!
Thank you all for your replies, it has helped bring clarity to the situation...
God bless (HA!!!)
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 8:09 am
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2016 at 8:10 am by robvalue.)
I'm all for cherry picking, if it results in nicer religious people. It makes no sense, but then none of it does in the first place. I'd encourage people to cherry pick as much as it takes to not be an asshole.
It must be very frustrating to see someone you love taken in by this nonsense
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 8:10 am
(August 5, 2016 at 7:41 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: (August 4, 2016 at 8:00 am)Irrational Wrote: Why the emphasis on his beliefs anyway? There's more to a happy relationship/bond than anything to do with religious beliefs.
ahem
I think they should just rub their crotches together tbh.
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 8:55 am
(August 3, 2016 at 7:29 am)JojoP Wrote: I literally couldn't hate religion any more than I do, I feel such a deep disgust towards it, and in particular christianity, I know it is wrong and untrue to my very core.
Why? Religion has many positives as well. What negatives come to mind when you think about Buddhism?
People are "brainwashed" by all kinds of shit that has nothing to do with religion as well. I think you're taking the matter way too seriously.
As a Christian I had huge problems with the teachings of the Alpha Course, so if you're interested you can invite him here. But look with that said, Jesus was a pretty good person, and you can't fault most of his teachings. Christians who are more focused on the teachings of Jesus than the teachings of Paul or the teachings of Jehovah (and that's most of them) are drawing much more from the positives of the Bible rather than the negatives.
If you can't accept him for who he is, that's really not his problem. No two people on this planet have identical beliefs. I know personally some wonderful Christians who feel the effects of stigma in their workplaces by their colleagues. And I don't think that's very nice.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 8:57 am
Aractus Wrote:Religion has many positives as well.
Name one.
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 9:05 am
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2016 at 9:06 am by Aractus.)
People live longer and are happier, read the link in my sig. There is an abundance of peer review studies that show this. And consistently it is far greater than any other social group (sporting clubs, other interest groups, etc). If you want to live longer, and be happier, find a religion you like and join it. You could become a devout Kopimist* for example (*note no studies show a health benefit for this particular religion, yet).
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Help to de-convert!
August 5, 2016 at 9:06 am
You can't make yourself believe by joining a religion.
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