Fighting for god(s)

[RoadRunner79]

Hi Torin,

As with anything, it comes down to the reasons, that it is believed, and how good they are.    Being born into  a culture that believes a certain thing, being conquered by those who believe differently, or your teacher or mentor believing something is not a solid foundation on which to build.  The question is why (do they have good reason for what they believe)?  Also, truth is not up for a vote, or about what the majority believe.  This is a fallacy (argumentum ad populum).   Also, just because mistakes have been made in the past, or there are a number of choices, in which people believe, it doesn't mean that none of them are correct, or closer to the truth.  

There are a number of reasons, why people believe in the theistic position, both philosophical and scientific.  And you will find people who refer to experience and those who have an emotional (or feeling) reason, to believe (I think this can be evidence, but you also have to be wary, and I highly recommend collaborating evidence to go with it).   Your question, was to the Christian Faith however, and for this, I believe that you will find most of the evidence to be historic.  While the Scripture certainly contains teachings, and guidance, much of it is a historic narrative, of God's interaction with man.  They involve people, places and times, and if you read them, you will find, they often refer back to that history (sometimes reminding people of what they experienced, and other times,  referring to those who where witness to the events.  Much of what the Bible contains wasn't done in isolation (in a cave, or out in the woods somewhere) where to people of the time, could not refute or validate it.  Also, you will find, that these are not isolated stories within history, that pop out of no where.  There is a history prior to, and after, that connects them.

I am just curious on a Christian's theory for this, no hostility at all. Why are almost all the Christian holidays on documented pagan holidays? It seems like they are trying to over shadow those holidays on purpose to make people forget about them.

I think that some things certainly have been adopted. And I think that it is understandable that it is simpler to replace a culturally ingrained tradition, rather than to eliminate it. Some things may be coincidence, though as well. For instance Christmas is often charged with adopting the pagan holidays, however in reality it is a little after, and distinct from the practices for which this is claimed. There is also an ancient Jewish superstition, which claims that great men lived for whole years. When you calculate back form Jesus's death, then this would place his birth at the end of December. This also accounts for some Orthodox traditions, which celebrate Christmas in early January based on a different day for Christ's death.

[robvalue]

Just part of the Frankenstein's Monster that is Christianity. You'll find a bit of everything wedged in there somewhere.

[Aoi Magi]

All religions steal borrow from rival religions, that's how they survive, christianity is nothing new in that regard

[Neo-Scholastic]

Hi

Hope you all are having a good day .I want to share my opinon and story about one thing.When i was younger i was always fascinated with history.And one day in our history lesson we where learning about crusades in Baltic region.I read with excitment how my ancestors fought with these invaders, they didn't wanted to give away they land and their faith.Baltic tribes were pagans, and believed in many many gods.They were very religious and spiritual.They even were last pagans in Europe (google it).But after long and hard fighting with crusaders, they accepted christianity and become catholic nation (in theory, many people still believed in ancient gods, only king became catholic).Centuries has passed and Baltic region people slowly accepted this new faith.And then i thought to myself, wait a minute.We fought so strongly for our old pagan gods, but now people are doing the same.The means of fighting has changed of course, but still many many people believe in Christian god, and they believe in it very strongly.

Then i asked my history teacher one question ( who was christian by the way) i remember it precisely even today:,,Teacher our ancestors, fought for they believed what was right, and those people couldn't accept even the notion that christian god is right god, so why we are sure now that this god is right? My teacher could't answer that.When lesson was over, he asked me to stay and said how i even come up with this idea?

I explained to him that from my experience people today pray for this god (especially older people), they even build huge wooden crosses in their backyards (mostly in villages) They are too very religious and wouldn't give their faith, for any new god.And in ancient times we did the same, we prayed for gods, we bringed them sacrifices, and build monuments for them,and we didn't accepted new god, because whe knew that gods we were believeing were right gods.Why are we so sure now that this god is right one?

He sitted in silence, i saw  his eyes were questioning.I was only in 6 or 7 grade.He then said that we have prove of god, the holly bible.At the time i didn't even read the bible and my parents said that bible is truth, so i believed in his conclusion.

Now i want to ask you dear christians why are you so sure that your god is only one right god? What if hypothetically speaking in world would born a new religion and everyone started to converting to it, how would you know that you are right and they are wrong? (I also don't want to disrespect anyone, but please be very open minded)

I hate to poop on your 'victory' over your teacher Mr. Vader, but the answer to your question is 'childishly' simple.

Let me answer by asking you a question..

If you were adopted... How do you know your adopted parents are the "right ones?" How do you know they are your parents?

Does your selection of the "right parent" even have anything to do with this equation?

-Or-

Is it more about your parents selection of you...

The same is true here. We do not select God, God selects us.

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you." - John 15:16

"Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes." - Ephesians 1:4

And that's just a start...

[The Grand Nudger]

Must be a very gratifying feeling, imagining that you have been chosen by a god for this or that.  I can see the appeal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4YrCFz0Kfc

[purplepurpose]

Believers are like "spiritual aliens". The most devouted of them try to consume pain in the form of fear in the hell and "pleasure starvation". Thats very alien thing to do, in my opinion, ruin your current life with voluntary pain in order to gain "happy" afterlife.

Martyrdom is strange.

[Aoi Magi]

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you." - John 15:16

...in other words, throw free will out the window...

"Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes." - Ephesians 1:4

...so our doom and hell and everything was pre-planned

HE is an a**hole even by his own PR standards.

[Torin]

Hi Torin,

As with anything, it comes down to the reasons, that it is believed, and how good they are.    Being born into  a culture that believes a certain thing, being conquered by those who believe differently, or your teacher or mentor believing something is not a solid foundation on which to build.  The question is why (do they have good reason for what they believe)?  Also, truth is not up for a vote, or about what the majority believe.  This is a fallacy (argumentum ad populum).   Also, just because mistakes have been made in the past, or there are a number of choices, in which people believe, it doesn't mean that none of them are correct, or closer to the truth.  

There are a number of reasons, why people believe in the theistic position, both philosophical and scientific.  And you will find people who refer to experience and those who have an emotional (or feeling) reason, to believe (I think this can be evidence, but you also have to be wary, and I highly recommend collaborating evidence to go with it).   Your question, was to the Christian Faith however, and for this, I believe that you will find most of the evidence to be historic.  While the Scripture certainly contains teachings, and guidance, much of it is a historic narrative, of God's interaction with man.  They involve people, places and times, and if you read them, you will find, they often refer back to that history (sometimes reminding people of what they experienced, and other times,  referring to those who where witness to the events.  Much of what the Bible contains wasn't done in isolation (in a cave, or out in the woods somewhere) where to people of the time, could not refute or validate it.  Also, you will find, that these are not isolated stories within history, that pop out of no where.  There is a history prior to, and after, that connects them.

I am just curious on a Christian's theory for this, no hostility at all. Why are almost all the Christian holidays on documented pagan holidays? It seems like they are trying to over shadow those holidays on purpose to make people forget about them.

I also feel this way

[The Grand Nudger]

They were, actually (trying to make people "forget" about those holidays - but more accurately re-purposing them as a coercive pressure).  There was a school of thought, at the time, that they could christianize and make holy these pagan holidays, thereby cleansing the land and people of pagan evils.  You can probably understand why this strategy was employed.  Getting people to switch religious clubs is actually pretty easy - getting them to give up parties and traditional celebrations...is not.

The early history of christian cultural expansion reads like a procedural on what would happen if the world were suddenly overrun with murderous used car salesmen.

[mlmooney89]

I am just curious on a Christian's theory for this, no hostility at all. Why are almost all the Christian holidays on documented pagan holidays? It seems like they are trying to over shadow those holidays on purpose to make people forget about them.

I think that some things certainly have been adopted.  And I think that it is understandable that it is simpler to replace a culturally ingrained tradition, rather than to eliminate it.  Some things may be coincidence, though as well.  For instance Christmas is often charged with adopting the pagan holidays, however in reality it is a little after, and distinct from the practices for which this is claimed.   There is also an ancient Jewish superstition, which claims that great men  lived for whole years.  When you calculate back form Jesus's death, then this would place his birth at the end of December.  This also accounts for some Orthodox traditions, which celebrate Christmas in early January based on a different day for Christ's death.

But the fact that man is changing these all important date kinda make a Christian hesitant about the whole thing? Like the fact "that some things certainly have been adopted" make the whole covering up of other religious holidays seem a bit sketchy which puts everything in a wtf state?