Understanding Narcissism

[Edwardo Piet]

I love myself but deep down I sometimes feel that I am worthless, however my awesome friends make me feel that I must be awesome to have such awesome friends. I also fucking love attention and I feed off it. I am extremely vicarious.

Supposedly narcissists are like that but I have empathy and they don't. I care for other people huge amounts. I'm just lucky to have awesome friends

[The Grand Nudger]

Relationship psychologist Jo Hemmings opines that Rihanna could recognise the damage she is doing to herself through counselling. Talk therapy is one of the suggested methods for patients suffering from NPD.

-and it works, at least in my experience.  I'm by no means the strongest case of this, but let me tell you what it's like, from the inside of fortress self (which is the term that my counselor and I arrived upon as shorthand to refer to it).  The creation of this false self...this value construct, gets in the way of actually having a discussion with someone or relating to someone on a meaningful level (hence the difficulty with empathy).  You find yourself managing perceptions, managing your exposure, managing the relative amount of attribute x as it relates to attribute y.  It's fucking exhausting and leaves little time or impetus to consider anything else.  There are, generally, reasons that a person does this, even if those reasons are a long forgotten artifact of childhood.  They don't go to the trouble for nothing.  

---

I can't say that talking did it all, we used chemical assistance to put me into a place where I was both amenable to discussion (less concerned with maintaining that projection) and a position in which talking could show dividends (important to a person with NPD, lol).  I could get my position back if my counselor was satisfied...and I was pill-happy so down for just about anything.  A lowered guard, reduced inhibition.  Combine that with removing me from what we considered to be the instigating incident or circumstances (the combat environment).  Counselors often suggest to people with NPD that they take a step back from the relationships they've built, for a time, at the onset of counseling - to facilitate the effect of counseling and for the well-being of those affected by the person seeking treatment for the disorder.  Then it's just an issue of getting a person to confront and assess the reasons or motivations for their false projection.  

I say just as if it's easy....but it isn't.  Initially, in my experience, you treat the -counselor- as supply...which is something that I'm told they're all too happy to provide, up to a point.  They use that supply seeking behavior to try and determine -why- a person has developed the disorder..which they'll need to know if there's going to be a chance at successful treatment.  In my case it took a few months of "casual counseling" - we'd meet at informal locations and do something that I was interested in while we discussed the situation and what needed to happen before I could get what I wanted (she was a hell of a shot for a pogue, btw, and real pleasant on the eyes...I ended up marrying her, a couple years later, lol).  Gradually, those places became places she determined..we did things she expressed interest in, and the discussion shifted to what she needed to happen.  

Once a legitimate two way relationship was established, which is itself a major tactical victory born on the back of dedicated and serious effort on the part of the counselor,  it was formal counseling in a formal setting.  At -that- point we could discuss motivations in a way that she had some confidence in as being truthful, not just part of my schtick.  We'd go through those motivations..the goal, or the fear or vulnerability.  I was reminded that we all have these vulnerabilities (which ofc I know and knew but you can lose sight of it sometimes) and that other people manage to deal with that in healthier ways...ways that I could also manage it.  We assessed the failures of my projection to accomplish what it existed to do, and how it caused me and those around me damage.  All of this was in the context of a legitimate disassociative break...so it was a "bringing you back down to you, to who you are, to what you need to be healthy and happy, to what you need for the people around you to be healthy and happy, and to cease these destructive habits which do not achieve what you wish to achieve" sort-of-thing.  

When we'd made an advance on that front...it was time for the strategic issue of what to do with that developed skillset which is the engine of the disorder...how to better -use- what manifested itself as NPD at that time, in that setting.  So now...today (even as I write this) it's still with me.  What has been seen cannot be unseen, what has been learned cannot -honestly, be unlearned, lol.  Rather than use that to project a false self for the purposes of shielding my fragile psyche...I use it to project a colorful character which is -descriptive- of that fragile psyche.  I take the thing I once used to build a wall between me and what might hurt me, and build a bridge instead.  Rather than hide my faults, real and percieved, behind a wall of non-existent attributes and qualities and success and blah blah blah blah blah...I intentionally put them out there on display...I mostly turn them into jokes to laugh at, because hey.....if you can't laugh at it, whats the point. This, effectively, upoends the disorder..because I've made an effort (that eventually just becomes a habit) to do precisely the opposite of what my inner creepmode suggests I should do. Because I do what my inner creepmode suggest less and less and less..gradually, that voice, that compulsion, that sense of urgency...just fades out.

So here I am now, naked as a jaybird and letting people laugh, and laughing with them...holding up a magnifying glass so that others can more conveniently see my micropeen-of-mind. That's what worked...for me.

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TLDR version
Just letting people in, truly letting people in...is an effective treatment for this disorder...ultimately people with NPD are people under all the detritus they've surrounded themslves with...and the more -meaningful- and healthy relationships they build the more they act and feel like "regular people", the less their disorder manifests itself -as- a disorder....and that's probably why "talking it out", in the hands of a skilled operator can show results.  They just can't -build- those relationships under the cloud of the disorder. Alas, it doesn't work for everyone, for whatever reason.  I no longer need the meds, and I no longer need the counseling...but others never get to either point, or only reach one, or simply abandon the process and go out to continue shittifying their own lives and the lives of those closest to them.

[...]factor that needs to be taken into account is that Rihanna is seen constantly trying to keep in touch with her ex-boyfriend Chris Brown who used to abuse her. In spite of facing the abuse, it could be the singer's insecurity that is tempting her to get back with Brown. During one of her erratic moments, before her UK tour, Rihanna had gone missing during the last moment. Manager and mentor, Jay Z had gone crazy seeing Rihanna's irrational behaviour and urged to seek help. When Rihanna went missing, the crew started searching for her. It justifies "a constant need for attention and admiration" that is seen in NPD patients.

From that quote...and I'm just playing around with it here..not in any way diagnosing or suggesting a diagnosis...Rihanna could be seen as NS (narc supply) rather than the person with NPD.  Brown might have groomed her.  People groomed as supply, sometimes, begin to present the symptoms of the disorder. They mimic their abuser because a- it pleases their abuser, and b- it's a reactionary response to abuse. It's an easy pattern to fall into, and doesn't require that they have the disorder.

-edit: The sexy thing, btw, all those questions in the periphery. Sexy (and sex) is a shortcut to acceptance and admiration. Seeing as this is what the person with NPD is seeking, it;s no wonder that they are often overtly sexual, or make efforts to "be sexy". That's part of the disorder I didn't jettison, btw.

[Excited Penguin]

I'm not a narcissist, even though I might seem like one at times. In the end, I often do things secretly that benefit other people even though they make me look bad. I have a need to please everyone around me, but at the same time if I do this too much I feel like I'm too undermined by other people. And if any one of you know what that's like, you know you'll do anything not to be put in that position, ever.

[GrandizerII]

I'm not a narcissist, even though I might seem like one at times. In the end, I often do things secretly that benefit other people even though they make me look bad. I have a need to please everyone around me, but at the same time if I do this too much I feel like I'm too undermined by other people. And if any one of you know what that's like, you know you'll do anything not to be put in that position, ever.

I don't know why, but this sounds like something Jesus would say to atheists.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm a massive narcissist. But of course narcissists would never admit to being a narcissist so I'm not a narcissist. Which is what I want you to think. But of course I'm joking because I'm massively empathetic. I'm not remotely an emotional vampire I just get all my happiness from other people.

[Excited Penguin]

I'm not a narcissist, even though I might seem like one at times. In the end, I often do things secretly that benefit other people even though they make me look bad. I have a need to please everyone around me, but at the same time if I do this too much I feel like I'm too undermined by other people. And if any one of you know what that's like, you know you'll do anything not to be put in that position, ever.

I don't know why, but this sounds like something Jesus would say to atheists.

Look, man, I don't care how it sounds or how it looks. I was just being honest.

Do I do shitty things to other people sometimes? Yes. Do I plan  on it? No. Do I enjoy it? No.

That's all, really.

[Edwardo Piet]

I enjoy it when you say shitty things to me though. More please.

Although I like it even more when you say nice stuff. Even more of that please. More more more. Penguin is fun.

Seriously though EP: Regardless of your motivations you're a source of entertainment to me and I like your penguiny attention.

[The Grand Nudger]

We're all narcissists, to some extent.  Self interest is healthy and universally common to us.  It's only when it becomes a negative force in our lives that we begin to call it narcissism...with all the baggage of the term, and - just to stress this point again..that's not NPD.  So you get a pass on that one, and you don't get into my pathetic little club.

[Edwardo Piet]

Good because as a massive narcissist that's exactly what I wanted you to believe

By the way you must have recovered because I'm totally overtaking your post count so I'm getting more attention than you neener neener.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's like a real life game of mafia isn't it...lol.

You know, that's probably why I've never lost a game of mafia.....noobs. I have a performance enhancing disorder, the mafia equivalent of a doper crushing the 100m.

(ah, but I'm desperately seeking kudos for that novella...so no...I haven't recovered. I don't have a cure, can't tell people how to cure themselves. What I've done, is just retask it and consciously build a better habit set. There's always the chance, and frankly the fear...that I'll dive back down into the oubliette and fuck up the life I've built for myself. I did it once before...and all it took was one really shitty day at work.)