I've gone all orange.

[Tiberius]

Ok, what the hell?

I didn't force your hand, nor did I "put you on the spot". I was told by a few forum members that there were rumours you were retiring, and so I wanted to find out what was really going on. So I sent you a PM entitled "Just want to know where you stand..."

I've heard rumours from various people now that you are thinking about leaving AF. Can you confirm / deny this, or let me know where you stand. I'd prefer to move on from this whole episode quickly and continue building the community with the sensible people who remained.

Obviously I don't want to lose a great admin, but if you want to go and start a new community instead, I'd like to know.

-Adrian

In your reply, you first start by saying that you have no idea what I was talking about; that you've never voiced any reasons for leaving. Fine, the rumours were untrue. I was glad at that point.

...and then, in the next paragraph you say (and I quote) "However, now that you bring the subject up I do feel as if it might be time to move on."

Forcing your hand?!?!? I asked a bloody question, and you responded with a resignation. It doesn't stop there...you then said:

"All in all I think the best thing to do is to retire me off and get a new admin who will work well with the 'whole' team as that is really what the forum needs."

...followed by

"All I can say now is thanks for making me an admin in the first place and thanks also for a great couple of years and I look forward to the next as a valued and orange member."

So how on earth is this me forcing your hand? I asked you if you were leaving; you said no, and then said you thought retiring was the best option, and then you said you'd look forward to being a valued and orange member. I'm sorry if you were expecting me to ask "Are you sure?", but you seemed to make it quite clear from your response that you didn't want to be an admin anymore.

Yes, my reply to your resignation was a bit off, and I apologize for that. It's been quite stressful over the past few days, and I was disappointed in your decision to say the least. My "that's a shame" was meant to be heartfelt. It is a shame you are leaving, and to be honest, your resignation made no rational sense to me, since you'd been one of admins originally for banning personal attacks in the first place. Hence why I suspected the main reason you were leaving was because of Saerules, and I told you so in my reply.

I was planning on making some sort of public statement about your resignation, rather than a private one, but after your attempt at character assassination, I don't feel like it. Thanks for all the help on the forums, the t-shirts, the code, etc, but I'm sorry Darwinian, I don't deserve to be treated like that.

-Adrian

Edit: In the interests of openness, here is the PM I sent in response. Was it a bit much? Maybe. Could I have reworded it? Probably. Was I annoyed at one of the admin resigning over such a matter, and seemingly completely reversing his previous position? Most definitely.

Having said that, make of it what you will.

Well obviously that's a shame, and I completely disagree with everything you've said. AF is no more draconian that most forums on the internet, and if you think we've removed "fun" from the site, you are sorely mistaken. People can have fun without needing to insult each other. I seem to remember you voting to ban insults in the first place, so I have no idea why this sudden change has come about (although I can take a guess *cough* Sae *cough*).

It's a shame you had to side with her over us when she'd obviously done so much wrong over the past month. I don't quite understand your reasoning; I can only hope she'll make a better rule enforcer than a rule follower.

See you at the debate in November I guess.

-Adrian

[Bull Poopie]

If I was the sort of person who got annoyed easily or who bore grudges or reacted badly to adverse situations or didn't have the laid back philosophy that I have I might have said..

"I gave that forum nearly two years of my spare time, I mean I was there from day one helping out, coming up with ideas for forums, developing clever little mycode scripts (Yes, you have me to thank for the likes of [hide], [imgfit] etc.), I donated a whole bunch of cash and even created custom Atheist Forum t-shirts which I either sold at cost or any small profit made, donated back to the forum. Plus of course, all the normal stuff of fixing quotes, deleting spammers, hunting down trolls, helping members etc. etc.

And then, when my hand is forced, or at least I'm put on the spot and I reluctantly retire, giving my reasons calmly and rationally with no hint of malice or ill-will towards the forum and only the wish that it continues to be the great place it used to be, what do I get in return? Well dear reader, I'll tell you. I get a limp 'that's a shame' and then a point by point rebuttal of my every reason for leaving. It would have been nice to have received a 'sorry to see you go' or perhaps 'thanks for all the work and time you've put in to the forum' or maybe even 'you'll be missed but good luck with any future projects' or just possibly a 'let's have a chat about this and see if we can resolve any issues', but no, nothing of the sort, or at least, nothing that I could interpret as such.

After all, I had done nothing wrong and only did what I thought was best for this community for the past two years.

It just goes to show, that in the cut and thrust of forum admin, loyalty and commitment don't seem to be particularly valuable commodities."

But of course I'm far too philosophical to even consider such an argument.

And now, let the rebuttals and character assassination begin

Mr Agent Orange,

I am sad to see you go as is everyone. There is always a sad day when people can't get along in a community. I didnot know you very well but I am sure you were a great admin and a good guy.
But why does the bickering have to still continue? No one really was trying to attack someone. Every community needs some kind of rules inforced or that community will get out of control and adventualy there will be a dictatorship in rule over time to my opinion. I respect you for starting your own community and bowing out of this one in retirement respectfully. I know Adrian and Eilonnwy are truely thankful for all you have done for the Atheist Forums but lets stop the bickering and the assumption of people trying to attack other people. I have heard of the situation on both sides and particularly this is giving me a throabing headache. Can you bow out of the admin position and retire with a happy barney face instead of assuming people are going to attack you? By the comment "And now, let the rebuttals and character assassination begin "... Let's be mature here people not attack eachother and just sing a happy barney song and hold hands, isn't that polite down to earth people would do instead of assuming stuff?
My grandma always told me when you assume you make an ass out of yourself

Sighs, I usually donot comment but I couldnot help myself.

Christy--THIS HAS TO STOP!- or I am going to start singing barney songs!

[Cego_Colher]

okay, ignoring whatever happened between Dar and Adrain, which I have nothing to say to anyway. (just thought I'd let you know that I have nothing to say.) It doesn't matter what color you are, though I'd have to agree it is more of a goldenrod or icky yellow. But when I clicked on the thread I didn't think– well, I had no idea what you meant by "all orange". well, I found out. Either way, it doesn't bother me a bit.

[Darwinian]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

Well, thanks to everyone who has shown me support and maybe I'll be back one day. But not for a while as there is still a bitter taste in my mouth.

Bye...

[downbeatplumb]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

Well, thanks to everyone who has shown me support and maybe I'll be back one day. But not for a while as there is still a bitter taste in my mouth.

Bye...

Whatever you do dont use the bottle under your table to wash away the bitter taste!!!

[Eilonnwy]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

Well, thanks to everyone who has shown me support and maybe I'll be back one day. But not for a while as there is still a bitter taste in my mouth.

Bye...

You kind of invited that kind of response, practically begged for it by a giving rather misleading explanation of what happened. Please don't make yourself out to be a victim when you've started attacking in the first place. That's rather hypocritical.

You haven't even really discussed anything with us. You took an inquiry about a rumor to suddenly retire and never brought up your issues with the other admins. Then you claimed you were forced out. Meanwhile we've all stated we like you, appreciate your contributions, and wish for you to stay. I don't get it.

[LastPoet]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

Well, thanks to everyone who has shown me support and maybe I'll be back one day. But not for a while as there is still a bitter taste in my mouth.

Bye...

Cya Darwinian...

What fucking madness is this? I really want to make sense of all of this! Such a thing like prohibiting insults is generating such absurdity!

Man, this whole deal is so strange, a chism on the forums, we almost sound like petty teenagers, I had hope rational discussion should be in order, not feelings...

[Bull Poopie]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

Well, thanks to everyone who has shown me support and maybe I'll be back one day. But not for a while as there is still a bitter taste in my mouth.

Bye...

Cya Darwinian...

What fucking madness is this? I really want to make sense of all of this! Such a thing like prohibiting insults is generating such absurdity!

Man, this whole deal is so strange, a chism on the forums, we almost sound like petty teenagers, I had hope rational discussion should be in order, not feelings...

But Poet it has come down to the D word once again. D...R...A....M....A.....I...T..I...S.... and this shit really has to stop. It's just filling these boxes with insults and that is so annoying. " Says in a valley girl voice" Come on and lets just get along!

Christy

[fr0d0]

Seems like you imploded by your own effort Dad. Saerules told us in chat that you were definitely leaving, and it seems you've twisted Adrian's enquiry over this as thinking that it's known what you have said possibly to Saerules? I find it ironic that you voted in no insults, and that you've moved to a forum that disallows insults, as have the others who left for the same reason.

I take it by your last goodbye you've now really left. It seems that you had already in your mind. I'd come visit but I'd be banned quite quickly, as I'm not allowed to hold my views over there, by your rules. I'll always consider you a friend. C'est la vie.

[Tiberius]

I thought I might get that sort of response from Adrian. In fact, that's one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable here. All seems to be bickering.

What did you honestly expect when you were writing complete lies about what I said? C'mon Darwinian; you know I'm not a pushover, and you aren't going to fool anyone by playing the victim.

I sent you an apology by email; you can either accept it or not, but don't pretend like you haven't done anything wrong here. We are both to blame; we both took things the wrong way.