Why is life programmed to survive?

[The Grand Nudger]

Back to wooster territory, I'm afraid.  GL with that.

[Whateverist]

That is a good question, isn't it.  And yet the 'sacrifice' those 20% make is really no greater than the sacrifice the cells of a multi-cellular creature make in becoming one of a kazillion bone cells or a white blood cell or any of the others including those dead skin cells on the surface of our skin which you mention.  Apparently, it doesn't work to anthropomorphize by imputing our subjective states into the actions of a single cell.  Very likely neither a bone cell nor any of the mold stalk cells feels heroic.  They lack anything we'd recognize as subjective states.  But the process of selection works as well with built in 'sacrifice' of individuals for the survival of the kind (species/family/etc) as it does for the selection of individual multi-cell creatures.  The living material survives to perpetuate its kind and that keeps the ball rolling, no celebratory subjective states necessary.

How do we know they have no subjective states?

Please re-read more carefully.

In fact what are our subjective states? Are they thoughts or feelings?  Do plants have feelings and react to stimuli and learn? Yes.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/ne...out-plants

Well .. not just because an author we both like says so. As Rhythm says, no doubt he was exercising poetic license. Certainly his expertise wouldn't enable hime to support such a strong claim.

Sunflowers turn their heads to face the sun all day each day. Would a depressed sun flower figure "why bother" and take a day off? Do you think the action of a sunflower plant to align the face of its flowers with the sun is evidence of intention in plants? What need have plants of subjective states? What organs do they have to produce them? Actions don't bespeak either intention or subjective states, no more than complexity of structure is evidence of design.

[Whateverist]

@ OP

Life is programmed to survive because if it wasn't it wouldn't survive, I reckon.

Sounds circular but that's because your 'why question' is really a 'how question', I reckon.

Who or what did the programming?

[Thumpalumpacus]

The elephant in the room is biochemical responses. Not every, or even most, responses, are willful.

[quip]

A world with or without life is no different for the universe. 

The universe may or may not exist sans life's sentient experiences of, but then again - given the former - it may as well not exist at all.

That's the difference.

[Arkilogue]

The elephant in the room is biochemical responses. Not every, or even most, responses, are willful.

Sounds like emotional Tourettes syndrome...no wonder the monks meditate.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sunflowers turn their heads to face the sun all day each day.  Would a depressed sun flower figure "why bother" and take a day off?  Do you think the action of a sunflower plant to align the face of its flowers with the sun is evidence of intention in plants?  What need have plants of subjective states?  What organs do they have to produce them?  

An interesting thing, considering that their lack of organs-as-such is why they don;t need to run....and may itself help to explain why they have no use or capacity for fear.  Also...depressed sunflowers, lol, brilliant.

Actions don't bespeak either intention or subjective states, no more than complexity of structure is evidence of design.

Which is where it all get's amusing..because that's -precisely- how we determine intent and subjective states in human beings.

[Arkilogue]

Sunflowers turn their heads to face the sun all day each day.  Would a depressed sun flower figure "why bother" and take a day off?  Do you think the action of a sunflower plant to align the face of its flowers with the sun is evidence of intention in plants?  What need have plants of subjective states?  What organs do they have to produce them?  Actions don't bespeak either intention or subjective states, no more than complexity of structure is evidence of design.

Thoughts are a higher order process than emotions.

Their subjective state would be the EM coherence of all there parts working together. Without thought in the way, i'd imagine their default state is ecstasy. And it need be no more a willed state than the feelings we get from a beautiful sunrise. We didn't decide to be happy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Thoughts are a higher order process than emotions.

Are they..are you sure they aren;t the same process?  Go collect your nobel..the world has been waiting for you to come along.  

Their subjective state would be the EM coherence of all there parts working together. Without thought in the way, i'd imagine their default state is ecstasy. And it need be no more a willed state than the feelings we get from a beautiful sunrise. We didn't decide to be happy.

Again with magnetism and whatnot.  Disregard what I said about collecting a nobel.  

[Arkilogue]

Thoughts are a higher order process than emotions.

Are they..are you sure they aren;t the same process?  Go collect your nobel..the world has been waiting for you to come along.  

Their subjective state would be the EM coherence of all there parts working together. Without thought in the way, i'd imagine their default state is ecstasy. And it need be no more a willed state than the feelings we get from a beautiful sunrise. We didn't decide to be happy.

Again with magnetism and whatnot.  Disregard what I said about collecting a nobel.  

Em fields have infinite range and they do not stop at your skin. The one produced by your heart extends measurably for several meters. You are immersed in them and your body's fields are in communication with them underneath the level of your awareness.

Some people pay more attention that others. Ever been in a situation that "didn't feel quite right" and your intuition turns out to be correct? Ever feel someone was staring at you only to look around and find them looking away quickly? Field on field interaction, below the threshold of thought.