Is the Hadith a Forgery?

[robvalue]

The standard, such as it is, seems to be, "Can I make an argument from ignorance regarding this text?"

[paulpablo]

The fact that you don't like them doesn't make them forgeries.They are obviously and officially a part of islam, too, so I'm not sure what you mean.They are supposed to have been written down from oral traditions at some point. Do you contest that that's the case?

How are the hadiths authentic, at least from what I read I found no mention of hadiths in the Qur'an.
And the Qur'an supposedly has all the answers to all the questions.

I asked a Muslim in person this question and I've seen many replies on forums.

I honestly can't be bothered to research in detail, I'm just going off vague memory, I'll leave it to you to do the searching for the finer details.

It has something to do with the quran saying that Muhammad is a very good role model and you should do what he does, but you can't know everything he does unless you know the reliable hadith.

The Muslim I asked in person looked disgusted at me for even asking the question, I'm pretty sure it's been brainwashed into them since childhood just like the quran has that these hadiths are unquestionable.  Or at least the most popular ones.

From what I recall some very important info is contained within some hadith, like how to pray or something along those lines.

They call it the science of hadith, the science of finding out which ancient anecdotes are more believable. This is not an ironic joke, this is serious.

[robvalue]

Yeah. It doesn't make sense anyway. Is it good to "be like Muhammad" just because you're being like him; or because he was actually good? In the first case it's circular/meaningless and has nothing to do with morality based on wellbeing. In the second case, his participation is irrelevant. Anyone who needs to follow fairy tale character to figure out how not to be a cunt has bigger problems.

[LastPoet]

I have a pertinent question. How do you go about finding wich one of those "holy" texts present an accurate description?

Religion is not falsifiable. Its not testable. You have to believe then apply the texas sharpshooter mindset to validate your beliefs. There is no method. There is nothing playing on human feelings. How do you show other people what you believe is true?

I can show basic physics with simple material. A string with a straw, wrapped to a baloon is neat. Even neatier considering Newton's third law. I for one have been skeptical of science, and we CAN test it ourselves. I was skeptical that Natrium (sodium) reacted so heavily to water. Since they would not show that to us in school, I stole a jar of it, for scientific purposes. Wow, so cool. A little bit just consumes it. A bigger bit catches flame. A cubic half centimeter will give you tinitis. Ohhh and what about a whole chunk of it in a well? Ohhhhh.

[Alex K]

I think there's some confusion over what is meant by the term 'forgery'.

Forgery is sort of a sub-category of fraud, but with a significant difference. In order for a hadith to be a forgery, someone would have had to have made a copy of an 'authentic' hadith, and tried to pass it off as the genuine article. In that sense, at least, the idea that ANY hadith are forged is not provable.

But even if we accept all hadith as genuine/authentic, that says nothing about their truth or falsity. In essence, a hadith is a report of something Muhammad said or did. Such a report can be genuine (not forged) and still be untrue.

And the reason that the hadith are not mentioned in the Q'ran is that hadith are, by definition, things that are not mentioned in the Q'ran.

Boru

That's kind of what I was trying to get at, yeah

[ReptilianPeon]

This should be a fun video to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlAs_vTh_2w

Now, is anybody come out and defend Hadith?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Experience shows that oral tales are not reliably transmitted from person to person.  There is no way to verify what they originally said.... if they said anything.

Which still doesn't make them forgeries.

Boru

[WinterHold]

It depends on your personal beliefs about history.
History is written by the victors, also history in the Ancient world wasn't documented probably; you can see examples allover the world.

Even natives of Arabia and Persia are fighting for 1400 years over history books and Hadith books.

Personally? I quit believing in the Hadith. I can never trust its authors.

[ReptilianPeon]

The Ummah needs more wise people like you to lead it Atlas. It must be saved from itself. Reform is inevitable.

[Brian37]

I hate the word "forgery". It does not matter. No religion ever pops magically out of a vacuum and any new one comes from competition from surrounding and prior ideas. Islam comes from the same line as Christianity and Jews, and the Hebrews who gave rise to the others took their characters from polytheism.

Even Rastas are really derived from African Christian/Jewish roots. Buddhism is ultimately a rejection of Hinduism.