Acupunture - pseudoscience?

[brewer]

Evidence does not show acupuncture cures anything.  

However, body of evidence shows acupuncture needles as applied to traditional acupuncture pressure points has some palliative and analgesic effect.  The fact that it doesn't seem to work as well when randomly applied, even on patients who has no idea where acupuncture pressure points are, suggest it is not quite a placebo affect.   It is also not so far fetched, as mere pressure on many of these points also seem to have analgesic effects, something which skilled masseuse takes advantage of.

If it has a real therapeutic effect then it should be observable under test conditions, and repeatable. As mentioned earlier it's based on a belief about disease that is outdated and inconsistent with the germ theory of disease. It's based on disease and infirmity being caused by meridians.

bold mine

Is your medical logic/thinking that limited? Can you not think of any other human disease that exists outside of germ theory? 

My comment is not a defense of acupuncture.

[Aractus]

Is your medical logic/thinking that limited? Can you not think of any other human disease that exists outside of germ theory?

Of course there's psychology as well, there's organic and non-organic substances that also cause disease, asbestos comes to mind. I was just simplifying it. The point is that the traditional belief is in the meridian theory of disease not the germ theory. Same with the chiropractic theory of disease which states that all disease and infirmity is caused by spinal misalignments. The only thing that chiropractic adjustments do anything for is lower back pain, and even then it's a less effective treatment than the biomedical approach, and only has a short-term effect not a long-term one. With acupuncture, it doesn't even have claim to be able to help significantly for one condition, let alone all the other health conditions it cures to claim. And nothing in medical science even remotely resembles meridians, so yes it is far-fetched.

As I mentioned earlier, scepticism alone is not a reason to refuse a non-invasive, non-dangerous, inexpensive treatment option that may be of benefit (i.e. Pickle Juice), especially when the evidence for other treatments is just as thin, and the theory behind how the condition it treats occurs is not very well understood. You have to start somewhere, and if you don't try out these things you'll never know if they work or not.

[brewer]

How about endocrine, immunological, genetic, organ failure, aging, trauma, ............ more than just germ.

Not that acupuncture, chiropractic, homeopathic have much, if any, place in medical discussions. Naturopathic may have a very limited place. 

I'm still curious as to what was being treated and how/by whom it was diagnosed. This may be just as big a part of the discussion as the acupuncture treatment itself.

[Aractus]

How about endocrine, immunological, genetic, organ failure, aging, trauma, ............ more than just germ.

The germ theory of disease states that some diseases and infirmities are caused by microbes, not all.

[Doubting Thomas]

[johan]

I can walk, work and sleep without pain-killers.
It's either acupuncture or the Holy Spirit.

I too can walk, work and sleep without the need for pain-killers. And that was not always the case. And yet, I had no acupuncture.

[Minimalist]

I had a vet give my dog two free acupuncture treatments for spinal inflammation.  The dog seemed to not mind the treatment probably because the vet tech sat there scratching his head and ears while the vet put the needles in.  When the needles came out he seemed the same as before.  Subsequently another vet gave him an anti-inflammatory pill called Novox and he improved instantly.

I suspect that is because the dog can't be talked into the woo-woo bullshit these new agers put out.

[abaris]

I suspect that is because the dog can't be talked into the woo-woo bullshit these new agers put out.

That's why placebos work under certain conditions. If you're inclined to believe the whoo, it may just work. And even doctors sometimes resort to placebo treatment. It only gest dangerous if someone sells the snake oil for life threatening conditions.

[Minimalist]

Yes...OTOH he was a very smart dog.

[abaris]

Yes...OTOH he was a very smart dog.

They're probably smarter than us, not giving a shit over any kind of whoo if it doesn't involve a reward.