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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 6:25 pm
(This post was last modified: October 3, 2016 at 6:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You mean, you think you have to rule in the supernatural, if there is to be a historical jesus? We're wondering, here, whether or not there was a man..not whether or not the man was a miracle worker.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 6:46 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 6:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You mean, you think you have to rule in the supernatural, if there is to be a historical jesus? We're wondering, here, whether or not there was a man..not whether or not the man was a miracle worker.
Ok... so what are your reasons for doubting that there was a man named Jesus to whom the accounts are referring?
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 6:59 pm
(This post was last modified: October 3, 2016 at 7:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The question isn't why I would doubt it, but why I would believe it.
The dearth of evidence for any jesus the man, and the demonstrable existence of people who didn't -believe- in a jesus-the-man in the first place. Who believed, like you believe, in a christ? Again, as has been explained so many times in this thread and others. We have stories, we have the belief of others in those stories, but those beliefs and those stories did not start as we see them today...and their existence doesn;t depend on a single iota of historicity. The jesus-come-legend is what one branch of christians -eventually- came to call "the real story" ...of a mythical christ- and that is all we've got. That's it. That doesn't cut it, for me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:11 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 6:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Again, as has been explained so many times in this thread and others. We have stories, we have the belief of others in those stories, but those beliefs and those stories did not start as we see them today...and their existence doesn;t depend on a single iota of historicity. The jesus-come-legend is what one branch of christians -eventually- came to call "the real story" ...of a mythical christ- and that is all we've got. That's it. That doesn't cut it, for me.
Ok.... again... how did you come to this conclusion of these statements? You make a lot of claims, but what is the evidence or reasons that you base them on.
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:15 pm
(This post was last modified: October 3, 2016 at 7:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What would the point be in repeating what has already been presented? Is it theater time again?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:17 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 7:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What would the point be in repeating what has already been presented? Is it theater time again?
Yes, if you are just going to repeat the claims and not give any reason behind them, we can skip the theater.
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:33 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 5:29 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (October 3, 2016 at 5:21 pm)Minimalist Wrote: How about a dead jew coming back to life and flying up to heaven? Let's start with that.
Your definition seems fairly specific, I would almost say ad hoc! Is this your definition or an example?
Also, would you agree, that "magic" is beyond the bounds of evidence? If so.... why?
I gave you what you asked for. If you can't handle it, just admit it and we can move on.
You tell me. I don't accept the reality of "magic."
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:56 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 7:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: (October 3, 2016 at 5:29 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Your definition seems fairly specific, I would almost say ad hoc! Is this your definition or an example?
Also, would you agree, that "magic" is beyond the bounds of evidence? If so.... why?
I gave you what you asked for. If you can't handle it, just admit it and we can move on.
You tell me. I don't accept the reality of "magic."
So then anything else is not magic then.... ok
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 7:57 pm
Nothing is magic until proven otherwise. Get busy.
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RE: Richard Carrier - The Hero Savior Analogy
October 3, 2016 at 8:41 pm
(October 3, 2016 at 7:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Nothing is magic until proven otherwise. Get busy.
By your narrow definition.... very little is magic.
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