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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 29, 2010 at 11:17 am
Im afraid to me this is casuistry. But to your points:
I am not mixing up knowledge of god with everything possesed by God. We have NO knowledge of god to mix up.
I look at evidence. God is meant to answer prayers and he doesn't (at least from the evidence we have). We know its unfair from our own objective human values, inculcated in us by years of social evolution. A small child suffering from meningitus having to lose a limb, whose parents are deeply devout believers, observe the articles of faith etc, pray for their child to receive help. Heavens response...nothing, but god is excused becuase of the higher purpose. A fraudster, womanizer, murderer who has a 50:50 chance of surviving an illness, is prayed for by his family. Heavens response...nothing, only if he survived it would be attributed to a god. A confirmation bias being in place.
I didn't say that all prayers need to be answered by god, but you would expect that the actions of god in responding to some prayer, might be significant and be testable given the claims of theism. As this is not the case it is safe to conclude that atheism is more likely than theism. And given the evidence a lot more likely.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 29, 2010 at 11:58 am
(August 29, 2010 at 8:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote: "We" (as in non believers) will not see evidence this is true.
Let's fix this. "We" (as in believers) will not see evidence this is true. Because you look at the answers without allowing for Santa."
If there is no evidence to suggest such a being exists, then there is no reason to conclude that this being is responsible for anything.
If I can't find an answer to something right away, I will never jump to god unless evidence points towards god.
Quite simple and easy to understand really.
There is no reason to believe that pink rabits under the moon's surface created the universe because 1. There is no evidence to suggest that they even exist (just like god) and 2. Even if there was evidence of their existance, you'll still need further evidence to say that they created the universe. There is no evidence for pink rabits unther the moon's surface and there is no evidence to suggest that a god exists. Ta-da!
Why allow god into the equation if there is zero evidence for his existance?
You wouldn't allow the toothfairy into the equation now would you?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 10:35 am
The universe looks exactly as it would if there were no god. From this, I can infer that there isn't. Simples.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 10:37 am
To be able to make that statement, you'd have to define god.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Why? You claim to believe your god is real. Can you define him?
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 12:45 pm
The omnissiunt one made a claim. Instead of trying to make this about me, how about we explore the omnissiunt one's claim. It's an interesting claim, but the only bit that's missing is his definition of god, which surely must have some bearing on what he has stated, otherwise he wouldn't have any claim to make.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 12:55 pm
(August 30, 2010 at 12:45 pm)Scarface Wrote: The omnissiunt one made a claim. Instead of trying to make this about me, how about we explore the omnissiunt one's claim. It's an interesting claim, but the only bit that's missing is his definition of god, which surely must have some bearing on what he has stated, otherwise he wouldn't have any claim to make.
If the universe is consistent with a non-supernatural explianation then you dont need god/gods to create and manipulate it.
You dont need to define god for that.
I have never seen a good definition of the more modern gods yahweh, allah etc are all fairly vague constructs, all the better to give us atheists moving targets.
So scarface you have a go at defining god.
Bet half the theists here disagree with you. (no matter what you say) 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 12:57 pm
(August 30, 2010 at 12:45 pm)Scarface Wrote: The omnissiunt one made a claim. Instead of trying to make this about me, how about we explore the omnissiunt one's claim. It's an interesting claim, but the only bit that's missing is his definition of god, which surely must have some bearing on what he has stated, otherwise he wouldn't have any claim to make.
You are absolutely right. Forgive my intrusion. You do make the claim that your god exists, so you are also under the same expectation... but this discussion is not that discussion.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Let's just wait and see what the omni one says. It's his claim after all.
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RE: Argument for atheism from necessary evil
August 30, 2010 at 1:14 pm
(August 30, 2010 at 1:10 pm)Scarface Wrote: Let's just wait and see what the omni one says. It's his claim after all.
Well he could just point to the bible and say 'that dude'
Like any fictional character you can only know them through the writing.
Same way we know moby dick was white.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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