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Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
#71
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 9:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 9:20 am)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: Oh my god, did you really just tell me that my mind couldn't have been inside of a cat? UGH!! I know that. I'm just saying... holy crap how do I even rephrase this differently anymore? Is there any scenario where a person could have not become a person? Like, all the particles that make up our body from birth, they were present there from the big bang, they probably composed some sort of molecules floating around space before the earth was created. The particles in my body probably existed in some form or another from way before I was even born. All of these molecules go into creating one thing or another, and yes a lot of species on earth are related and I could have become a cat, or a monkey, or whatever. But those molecules could also just be sitting there inside of a rock, I could have never come to be. I was just thinking, why am I sitting here right now and not just some primordial substance sitting around somewhere else, not formed into a human being?

...Because "you" are defined by what you are now.

And "Is there any scenario where a person could have not become a person?" makes...no sense.  If a person wasn't a person, it wouldn't have been a person in the first place, so no.  

I mean, some of your old skin cells that you used to have are probably in a tree or rock or bug somewhere, but those skin cells aren't "you."
No, I mean before they became a person, when they were just particles somewhere. Even if for generations, human beings existed from genetics and being a human being is totally congenital, those particles that come together to make a human being, which make up the body of the mother who gave birth to the human being, came from somewhere. They obviously came from food, because food is what is digested and transformed into the molecules that compose the body, and food comes from nutrients in the ground, sentiments, water, whatever. You are nothing more than a conglomeration of matter that has molded itself into you. I know that a person is constantly regenerating cells, which is what makes it all the more strange that I am somehow my brain, and my body keeps shedding these cells and replacing cells, yet i still have a continuous experience from birth that seems like it's been the same me from the time I was born. This illusion of consciousness and being inside of my own head. I wonder how consciousness itself forms, and how you could biologically define the processes that form consciousness. I believe there's a book called consciousness explained which I have sitting on my shelf, which I should get around to reading some time. I've never had anyone explain consciousness to me though in a way that isn't just a really pseudo sciency non answer sort of thing. It's like, I ask what causes consciousness, and people get it in their head that they have the answer and say like "oh it's because you're aware of yourself, don't you know what consciousness is?" I get really tired of the really crappy answers that don't explain things in a deeply informative and mind expanding way.
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#72
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
Sugar, you need to lay off that Devil's Lettuce. I don't know where you're getting this question from.
[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]
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#73
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
So...are you asking for an explanation of the origin of consciousness on an online atheist forum? It's one of the most complicated issues that exists, and tons of neuroscientists and other experts are currently investigating it with the best technology we have, and they're still working to come to some sort of conclusion. If you're looking for a "deeply informative and mind expanding" explanation..not sure what you're doing on an online forum.

And yes, the molecules in our bodies clearly came from things or beings that existed before us, but those molecules were never "us" before their configuration into their current state of "us".
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#74
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 6:13 am)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: No, it makes just as much sense. And to add to the question, I want to know why I was born at all, and my molecules aren't just a rock on the beach or something.

I thought we'd already established that your parents had something to do with that? Many parents do end up asking themselves that very same question in another form;

"Why did we have to have a kid, we could have bought a pet rock, and we'd be sitting on the beach sipping fruity ass drinks right now!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#75
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 9:11 am)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 9:03 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: The fact that the mind and body aren't separate is the reason you are you and not someone else.

If you were born to someone else, you wouldn't still be the person you are right now, just born in a different situation. You would be an entirely different person - born to different genetics, exposed to different experiences.

You are you because you were born to human parents in a specific set of circumstances, to a specific set of cell divisions in the womb, to a specific set of experiences, which were equally influenced by your own prior experiences, knowledge, and intellectual capabilities/emotional coping mechanisms.

Yeah I know that the probability of being born as someone else is just the same as being born me.

But where is the contradiction in that? For example, I'm just you born as someone else. What exactly is it you think sets us apart to the point it makes any sense to ask who we were before we were born?

For that matter, if the experiment of "being born you" could somehow be run again, who is to say you'd bear any resemblance to the guy asking the coherence-bending question?
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#76
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 6:13 am)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: No, it makes just as much sense. And to add to the question, I want to know why I was born at all, and my molecules aren't just a rock on the beach or something.

I thought we'd already established that your parents had something to do with that?  Many parents do end up asking themselves that very same question in another form;

"Why did we have to have a kid, we could have bought a pet rock, and we'd be sitting on the beach sipping fruity ass drinks right now!"
Okay, it just came to me that I could ask the question a little bit simpler.

What are the chances of me actually being born?

(October 13, 2016 at 9:35 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: So...are you asking for an explanation of the origin of consciousness on an online atheist forum?  It's one of the most complicated issues that exists, and tons of neuroscientists and other experts are currently investigating it with the best technology we have, and they're still working to come to some sort of conclusion.  If you're looking for a "deeply informative and mind expanding" explanation..not sure what you're doing on an online forum.

And yes, the molecules in our bodies clearly came from things or beings that existed before us, but those molecules were never "us" before their configuration into their current state of "us".
I think the molecules that you shed as dead skin cells are you as much you, or not you, as the molecules which were destined to become a part of you before you were born, from the beginning of time. What I want to know is what are the chances of me actually being assembled by those molecules, what are the actual chances of me being born?
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#77
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I thought we'd already established that your parents had something to do with that?  Many parents do end up asking themselves that very same question in another form;

"Why did we have to have a kid, we could have bought a pet rock, and we'd be sitting on the beach sipping fruity ass drinks right now!"
Okay, it just came to me that I could ask the question a little bit simpler.

What are the chances of me actually being born?

Do you mean, out of all of the possible combinations of your parents' genes, what is the chance of getting any specific set? Otherwise it's 100%, since you're here to ask that question.

And..that's not really a simpler question. There's a lot of philosophical baggage tied up in that short sentence.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#78
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I thought we'd already established that your parents had something to do with that?  Many parents do end up asking themselves that very same question in another form;

"Why did we have to have a kid, we could have bought a pet rock, and we'd be sitting on the beach sipping fruity ass drinks right now!"
Okay, it just came to me that I could ask the question a little bit simpler.

What are the chances of me actually being born?

Obviously, 100%, unity...here you are. Recall one of the first things I said, in response to your question?

Quote:...just flirtation with an inapplicable fascination towards the improbability of outcomes.

It's something that we do, our minds gravitate towards those sorts of questions. Trouble is, not every question we're capable of asking ourselves or others is informative, or even coherent.

More clinically, I'd point you, to the question above...at average rates of conception relative to incidence of sexual intercourse...weighed against the amount of pregnancies carried to term vs those that are not. That wouldn't be satisfying, though, would it. It's not what you're talking about, even though it -is- what you're asking. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#79
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
(October 13, 2016 at 2:34 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: Okay, it just came to me that I could ask the question a little bit simpler.

What are the chances of me actually being born?

Do you mean, out of all of the possible combinations of your parents' genes, what is the chance of getting any specific set?  Otherwise it's 100%, since you're here to ask that question.

And..that's not really a simpler question.  There's a lot of philosophical baggage tied up in that short sentence.
No, I mean what is the possibility of just never being born, never becoming a part of the human genome to be born in the first place. It's so strange to me that I ended up here, on this planet, as a human being. I consider it especially luck that I was born as a human being who has sentience. Maybe that wouldn't be so lucky for some.... but it's still fascinating. 
(October 13, 2016 at 2:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(October 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: Okay, it just came to me that I could ask the question a little bit simpler.

What are the chances of me actually being born?

Obviously, 100%, unity...here you are.  Recall one of the first things I said, in response to your question?  

Quote:...just flirtation with an inapplicable fascination towards the improbability of outcomes.  
You're making an error in that last post of yours. It's not a question of what is the probability of being born a rock. Jesus Christ, you should second guess before you make such a wild assumption. No, what I meant was what are the chances of never being born, and instead just being a rock instead of a baby, or some sediments in the soil. Whatever. Doesn't have to just be a rock.
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#80
RE: Sort of a complicated question, I'll try to ask. How was I born me and not another?
The question "what is the possibility of never being born" doesn't really make any sense. "You" can only exist if you were at one point born.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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