Oh, ffs.

[Excited Penguin]

Like abaris said. These people are adults willingly listening to these morons. Not my place to tell them they should do otherwise.

If I one day choose to listen to what a person or an organization tells me to do, I won't want anyone trying to convince me to do otherwise. I have my own head on my shoulders, thank you very much, fuck off.

[Faith No More]

Considering there over a billion people worldwide that base their lives on what the Vatican says, I certainly give a shit what's coming out of their mouths.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Like abaris said. These people are adults willingly listening to these morons. Not my place to tell them they should do otherwise.

If I one day choose to listen to what a person or an organization tells me to do, I won't want anyone trying to convince me to do otherwise. I have my own head on my shoulders, thank you very much, fuck off.

I see. So, if you believed in the tenets of National Socialism (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that you do) and orders came down that you would be required to help man the ovens at Dachau, no one has the right to criticize either the orders or to tell you that following them is wrong?

Sorry to have to inform you of this, but '...willingly listening to morons' has caused more sorrow, grief and eradication of human dignity than anything else I can think of.

Boru

[abaris]

I see.  So, if you believed in the tenets of National Socialism (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that you do) and orders came down that you would be required to help man the ovens at Dachau, no one has the right to criticize either the orders or to tell you that following them is wrong?


Boru

I hope some introspection will reveal how utterly stupid this comparison is. There's quite a gap between - I wouldn't use Dachau if I want to go all out polemic anyway - and some religious rule that may or may not be of any concern of the particular followers. Polls show that most catholics don't give much of a shit anyway over what comes from the Vatican.

But that aside. The above comparison really strikes a nerve with me.

[account_inactive]

Considering there over a billion people worldwide that base their lives on what the Vatican says,  I certainly give a shit what's coming out of their mouths.

I genuinely had no idea the number was that high...

That's scary.

[Excited Penguin]

Like abaris said. These people are adults willingly listening to these morons. Not my place to tell them they should do otherwise.

If I one day choose to listen to what a person or an organization tells me to do, I won't want anyone trying to convince me to do otherwise. I have my own head on my shoulders, thank you very much, fuck off.

I see.  So, if you believed in the tenets of National Socialism (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that you do) and orders came down that you would be required to help man the ovens at Dachau, no one has the right to criticize either the orders or to tell you that following them is wrong?

Sorry to have to inform you of this, but '...willingly listening to morons' has caused more sorrow, grief and eradication of human dignity than anything else I can think of.  

Boru

As far as I know, the Vatican isn't instructing anyone to commit atrocities or break the law. So that's not what I meant, nor would I do that or expect moral agents to stand by doing nothing if I did.

[account_inactive]

I see.  So, if you believed in the tenets of National Socialism (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that you do) and orders came down that you would be required to help man the ovens at Dachau, no one has the right to criticize either the orders or to tell you that following them is wrong?


Boru

I hope some introspection will reveal how utterly stupid this comparison is. There's quite a gap between - I wouldn't use Dachau if I want to go all out polemic anyway - and some religious rule that may or may not be of any concern of the particular followers. Polls show that most catholics don't give much of a shit anyway over what comes from the Vatican.

But that aside. The above comparison really strikes a nerve with me.

Have you got any links to those polls?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I see.  So, if you believed in the tenets of National Socialism (and I'm not for a moment suggesting that you do) and orders came down that you would be required to help man the ovens at Dachau, no one has the right to criticize either the orders or to tell you that following them is wrong?


Boru

I hope some introspection will reveal how utterly stupid this comparison is. There's quite a gap between - I wouldn't use Dachau if I want to go all out polemic anyway - and some religious rule that may or may not be of any concern of the particular followers. Polls show that most catholics don't give much of a shit anyway over what comes from the Vatican.

But that aside. The above comparison really strikes a nerve with me.

It is an admittedly extreme comparison, yes, but a valid one. The notion expressed elsewhere in this thread (that members of an organization must not be criticized for following edicts of that organization, nor should people criticize the edicts of any group of which they are not a member) is so severely loopy as to merit an extreme example.

Boru

[abaris]

I genuinely had no idea the number was that high...

That's scary.

Why? They're the most harmless bunch of them all. No political or social clout, their own followers not being very much invested for their largest parts. It's more of a traditional thing for most of them, according to polls. And you know what you get, even when dealing with hardcore catholics, since the pope calls the shots. And the pope, as opposed to evangelical pastors, doesn't call for homicide. This is much ado about nothing. It's just about burial ceremonies for catholics if they are inclined to follow what's coming from Rome.

I always keep saying, I'm comfortable with a catholic having access to nuclear launch codes. I don't extend the same trust to evangelicals, since they are all about end times. Catholics are not.

[abaris]

It is an admittedly extreme comparison, yes, but a valid one.  The notion expressed elsewhere in this thread (that members of an organization must not be criticized for following edicts of that organization, nor should people criticize the edicts of any group of which they are not a member) is so severely loopy as to merit an extreme example.

Boru

It's about burial rights and ceremonies, damn it. It's not as if the world was on the verge of being destroyed over this. Muslims and jews have laws against cremation and require the dead person to burried within 24 hours, if I'm not mistaken. Is that worthy of a comparison with Nazis too?