New Clinton email controversy

[Whateverist]

That's about how I feel too actually. It's just sad to see good, decent people putting aside everything they stand for to support and defend either one of those 2 clowns.

I respect this, but I don't have to put anything aside to support my candidate of choice. Strongly. Not everything in the press is correct.

I assume you support Hillary then?  I wonder what Hillary's haters are really upset about?  Maybe that comment as a new first lady that she wouldn't be making cookies for bake sales?

[Mermaid]

I respect this, but I don't have to put anything aside to support my candidate of choice. Strongly. Not everything in the press is correct.

I assume you support Hillary then?  I wonder what Hillary's haters are really upset about?  Maybe that comment as a new first lady that she wouldn't be making cookies for bake sales?

She is being held accountable for the same shitty things the men in her circle have done.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Speaking of evidence, whatcha got for this?

The fingerprints of the Russians are on the leaks.

There's no compelling evidence in there. It's based on the assumption that Guccifer 2.0 is a front for the Russian government, because he probably lied about being Romanian. He's a hacker though, of course he lied.

Did you ask yourself why a native Rumanian would not speak like one?

[Whateverist]

I assume you support Hillary then?  I wonder what Hillary's haters are really upset about?  Maybe that comment as a new first lady that she wouldn't be making cookies for bake sales?

She is being held accountable for the same shitty things the men in her circle have done.

Sorry, I'm coming into this conversation a little late.  I'm not sure what you think she's done.  Not grabbing women but their 'lapels' at least. 

Who is it you support then?

[Aroura]

She is being held accountable for the same shitty things the men in her circle have done.

Sorry, I'm coming into this conversation a little late.  I'm not sure what you think she's done.  Not grabbing women but their 'lapels' at least. 

Who is it you support then?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like she means that most male politicians have done the same and even worse, yet when Hillary does it, those things are suddenly 10 times worse.

Personally, I have nothing to put aside to vote for her.  She's a strong, capable woman.  The emails were poor judgement, but NOT criminal.  For her other "scandals", During war, bad shit happens.  Hundreds of people died in similar circumstances under Bush, but 4 people die with her as SoS, and she's suddenly a war mongering monster.  Also, changing your mind is not flip flopping.  It's a damned good thing that politicians can change their minds when presented with new evidence, just like "regular people.

Her policies on taxes, immigration, and most social policies (including cost for college) align closely with Bernie Sanders.  She proposes very green energy policies that are close to Jill Stein.  Is she "saying anything" to gain power?  I don't know, but I'd like to give her a chance to enact some of policies she has run on.  She isn't perfect, but no human being is.  And if people want an unblemished candidate, they are living in a pipe dream.

Point being, she isn't "just as bad" as Trump, she's actually a VERY GOOD candidate.  A lot of people don't like her because she gets a lot of unwarrented bad publicity from the press (no matter what people think, she is raked over the coals in the press, until recently).  I admire her tenacity, and willingness to change.

Every time I hear how she's just as bad, i'd like those people to stop reading click bait headlines, and do some research on their own. But I know that is a lot to ask of most people in this day and age of instant gratification.

[GrandizerII]

Sorry, I'm coming into this conversation a little late.  I'm not sure what you think she's done.  Not grabbing women but their 'lapels' at least. 

Who is it you support then?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like she means that most male politicians have done the same and even worse, yet when Hillary does it, those things are suddenly 10 times worse.

Personally, I have nothing to put aside to vote for her.  She's a strong, capable woman.  The emails were poor judgement, but NOT criminal.  For her other "scandals", During war, bad shit happens.  Hundreds of people died in similar circumstances under Bush, but 4 people die with her as SoS, and she's suddenly a war mongering monster.  Also, changing your mind is not flip flopping.  It's a damned good thing that politicians can change their minds when presented with new evidence, just like "regular people.

Her policies on taxes, immigration, and most social policies (including cost for college) align closely with Bernie Sanders.  She proposes very green energy policies that are close to Jill Stein.  Is she "saying anything" to gain power?  I don't know, but I'd like to give her a chance to enact some of policies she has run on.  She isn't perfect, but no human being is.  And if people want an unblemished candidate, they are living in a pipe dream.

Point being, she isn't "just as bad" as Trump, she's actually a VERY GOOD candidate.  A lot of people don't like her because she gets a lot of unwarrented bad publicity from the press (no matter what people think, she is raked over the coals in the press, until recently).  I admire her tenacity, and willingness to change.

Every time I hear how she's just as bad, i'd like those people to stop reading click bait headlines, and do some research on their own. But I know that is a lot to ask of most people in this day and age of instant gratification.

Yeah, that's fair. I personally don't think as highly of her as you do, but I see she's "redeemable" at least and can be of great benefit for the American public, and as president of the US, for the world as well. And she's worked hard to get where she's at now. So let's give her a chance.

[Mermaid]

Yes, Aurora, thank you. That is absolutely exactly what I mean. It all looks like blatant misogyny to me.

Sorry for making you draw that out of me, it's annoying when people do that.

[LadyForCamus]

I feel there is irony on both sides though. 

Bill was accused of sexual assault. Hilary supposedly played a role in trying to silence the women who were coming out and accusing Bill. Now Trump is getting accused of sexual assault as well. And yet both sides are using the sexual assault thing as ammo against the other. 

The whole thing is just all kinds of messed up.

First of all what Bill did in the extra marital sex department does not reflect on Hillary in any way.

Secondly I don't think Bill was ever accused of sexual assault.  He was guilty of exploiting a relationship of unequal power.  Not quite the same thing.

He was accused of raping a woman in a hotel room at one point, but I'm not sure of the time line, and I'm pretty sure she has since retracted her allegation. I'm fuzzy on the details. But like you said, his actions don't reflect on Hilary.

And frankly, if someone accused MY husband of cheating I'd probably call her a liar at first as well. That's just part of the emotional defense mechanism when trust in most intimate relationship of your life is threatened. Denial is a normal, psychological response. And, she publicly apologized after learning the allegation against Bill was true. I don't think it's fair to judge how Hilary dealt with these accusations. I don't think it's even an accurate comparison.

[LadyForCamus]

Where is this supposed evidence, Min? What is this supposed evidence? All that article is is hearsay. The Clinton server was probably hacked multiple times, and the one time we know about for sure was over the Tor network.

CNN is called the Clinton News Network for a reason.  

Lol, oh please.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/art...er-scorec/

[LadyForCamus]

As I've been saying for months, I don't think Clinton will win. True I don't understand the US political system all that well, but I do understand that she's horrendously corrupt. Trump is no angel either, he's certainly guilty of fraud if nothing else. I can't believe you have two criminals running against each other for President. You even have Bernie Sanders now saying he will work AGAINST Clinton with like-minded Senators to get his agenda through! I think he's realised Clinton does not intend to keep the promises she made to him, evidenced by the coaching she requires for her "policies", eg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PnV1IngGM

You can't make that shit up! Anyway, I think the Guardian article makes it pretty clear that Bernie distrusts Clinton's policy positions as evidenced by the fact he made those statements against Hillary just days out from the election.


I also want to say that the reporting around Wikileaks has been horrendously bad. I've seem a number of news sites in recent days claim that Wikileaks hacked the emails! Plenty more are claiming Assange is trying to help Trump win, and that Russia hacked the emails. We have no idea who hacked them - it could have been China for all we know. It could have been India, it could have been someone in the US, or it could even have been leaked and not hacked. As far as Russia goes, I think that's unlikely. I think Russia would have handed the emails to mainstream media, not to Wikileaks.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that according to current U.S. Intelligence Russia is being considered the most likely culprit.