"the movement."

[The Grand Nudger]

You think I give a shit about your opinion?  Why, you aint white.

See what happens when you open that can? Lap it up, accept it, denying it is to discredit your own bullshit. If you're comfortable with the bigotry expressed herein, well...be fucking comfortable. It's your bed, you made it.

[Iroscato]

Well, I can happily say white civilisations are definitely not barbaric and war-like. After all, everyone knows the two largest wars fought in history, killing tens of millions apiece were started by black people...


Oh wait.

[Whateverist]

As the debate raged on, I started to wonder what is 'black culture?' Is it the angry anti establishment, pro drug misogynistic, dominate and conquer stuff rap guys are always on about? Or Is it just a mirror image/black version of established white culture? (everything is basically the same but black people are in charge) and before I could come up with an answer. The guy arguing for BLM on the radio used that term again "African American culture" for some reason the word African stuck out in my mind... Then I began to think, in the history of the world, have Sub-Saharan Africans (S-SA) EVER in recorded history established a ideal empire, or a successful culturally and economically stable country? I could not come up with one example.

Wow lol

I appreciate how he always interprets the intentions of others in the most charitable manner possible.  Sometimes I really wish there were appropriate eternal rewards for some people.  But, no, wishes aren't horses.

[TaraJo]

Well, that's the thing. I wasn't quoting some crazy right wing annalist. I quoted the BLM official website. 

So, are you saying it's also fair game to judge all Christians based on what their official holy book says?  Because if that's the case, boy, are y'all crazy (seriously; death penalty for picking up sticks on Sunday?).  

This is the problem with any group that gets too big and diverse: there are going to be groups who agree with the website and those who don't.  Groups have this way of factioning off.

[Aristocatt]

Then I began to think, in the history of the world, have Sub-Saharan Africans (S-SA) EVER in recorded history established a ideal empire, or a successful culturally and economically stable country? I could not come up with one example.

What were you hoping to prove if you did find an example of some "ideal" Sub-Saharan African empire?  How did this thought process relate to the discussion they were having on the radio?

So I got home pulled up a map of Africa and started looking at all of the different countries where sub-saharan Africans rule or where the primary populace is S-SA. these nations are often time war torn, treat women poorly, lots of civil war and infighting (anti establishment) where the strongest war lord rules.

I maybe wrong, as i did not research every country's history, but from what I know I can not seem to remember any of these S-SA countries EVER being a model country, ever contributing to the world economy or ever being a shining example for all black people to look up to...

Okay...so what does this mean to you?  After your research, how does this relate to the radio discussion?

After a moment of thought  I started to look at the term African American, and remembered Liberia was the only REAL "AFRICAN/American" country/culture. As it was established/founded on slaves that were returned to Africa, After the civil war... That country is... a train wreck to put it nicely. Meaning if the descendants of slaves were literally given their own country with all the influence and skills learned from working in the fields, were given their own country Liberia would literally be that country. Raceism is rampant, there is a heavy handed onsided approach towards the 'native liberians' They are forced to live in certain areas, and treated as wild animals. Not to mention the ecconomic status and over all state of the nation is always in question. (civil conflict and corruption)

Meaning if the descendants. . .
It sounded like you almost were making a point in this paragraph, but again it just trailed off into a list of facts with no meaning attached to them.
Meaning what exactly?  Where did you complete this thought?  If "random list of facts" then _______

Now that said I am assuming the leadership of BLM is not wanting to inject this kinda of chaos into wesrtern culture.. (if they did, then f-them they need to be takenout as this is little more than terrorism/again google the history of liberia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia

Probably a solid assumption to make.  Glad we came to the conclusion that investigating Liberia isn't going to help us understand what African American Culture means.

That said I earnestly began to search for examples of successful modern black culture... What I found were examples all tied into modern western white culture. I also began to run a mental list of some of the communities on the opposite end of the spectrum, they too were dominated by 'black culture' in America. black culture that closly paralelled that of what Liberians have done.

I am personally a huge fan of post hoc ergo propter hoc logic too.  Glad we are on the same page here.

Now my question is, what exactly is BLM trying to change? What makes the leadership think it can do any better than their brothers and sisters in liberia/devastated 'black communities' In the US? Just short of conquering and taking the resources of others what will political dominance do? Again in Liberia as with all S-SA nations they have political dominance and corruption and infighting is the result of the dozen or so nations I looked at.

Oh, that's the point you are making.  Why didn't you just ask it to begin with silly.  No clue!  I could hazard a guess, but I'll refrain from doing so.

Look I know the first knee jerk reaction is a call to arms/racism. Get that oout of your system over and look at the facts/questions i asked. Would you openly vote for a guy who wants two sets of laws in this country? The laws black people make for themselves and the laws governing everyone else? (check out the blm link) like in Liberia.

I'm confused.  How did we get to having two separate sets of laws?

Can anyone give an example of a S-SA country that can be a shinning example. A country who's policies would gladly be adopted by the US or EU? a country known for it's tolerance, progressive thinking and economic strength? Again, Asians, Middle easterners, Whites, Native Americans, Indians all contribute in the way of strong societies who all have something to give/offer in the way of a common unity. Meaning we all befit some philosophy, some industry, some something that the rest of the world uses and benefits from in someway.

Didn't you establish above the BLM probably isn't interested in modelling an African nation?

Not that black people do not contribute anything. Not what I am saying, as a matter of fact black people in america have contributed alot in the way of art, literature, and industrial diversity. What I am asking for is if BLM matter gets their way and interjects their policies into the US culture, what are they planning to build? A S-SA nation? 

Whew!  Glad we figured that one out.  African Americans do in fact contribute to American society.

Which if you honestly look at Some of our inner cities (Detroit, Chicago, LA you'd be hard pressed to tell a difference) Or are they just looking to build on a black version of white America? (where the minority makes decisions for the majority)

If the latter is the case, then what is the need for political dominance? Meaning if black people in the history of the world are at their pinnical here 'under white America' why change? Why not strive to simply be apart of America? why the need to be black lead America?

Usually to have a latter, you need a former.  What was the former again?  I must have gotten lost somewhere. It couldn't be that they want to emulate Liberia, because you already assumed above that that wasn't the case.

Now to be apart of this discussion you can't bring what you think black lives matter is to the table. We are working with what they themselves identify is what BLM is all about. I would also like to ask we get past the first 10 pages of racism dialog. if it will help let eveyone assume I have rightfully accepted the tag of 'racist.' So then can we move to the questions I asked?

I'm also pretty happy we were able to get this out of the way.  

Seriously this is a hard question to ask, but if BLM is to be seriously considered someone needs to ask these question or at least entertain what a BLM view of America would look like to it's logical end.

I'm not really sure what you are asking.  Are you asking what BLM stands for?  I think that's what your asking.  I think that maybe if you listened to the Radio discussion that was taking place instead of daydreaming about Liberia, you might have a better understanding.

[Drich]

You think I give a shit about your opinion?  Why, you aint white.

See what happens when you open that can?  Lap it up, accept it, denying it is to discredit your own bullshit.  If you're comfortable with the bigotry expressed herein, well...be fucking comfortable.  It's your bed, you made it.

Is that the best you got sport?

Or are you too afraid to you the 'good words?'

Or did you really think that would be the first time I Every heard such a thing? Oh, looordy be, what wills I doo?
Rhythm sho did puts me in my place.. Buts I guess I's deserves it cuz I aint white!

Get over yourself you turkey neck jibber jabber honky fool!

What BLM wants effects everyone, not just turkey necked honky fools.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'll say this.   I think that it's completely valid to incite a riot, if you find yourself on the shitty end of institutional misconduct.  What are you supposed to do?   Ask the authorities for a redress of grievance?  They're the ones shooting you.

This nation was indeed baptized in blood.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

"Excuse me sir, would you mind very much removing your jackboot from my throat" doesn't seem like a request laden with much prospect for success. While I don't think violence is a solution, it sure in hell is an attention-getter.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or are you too afraid to you the 'good words?'

Or did you really think that would be the first time I Every heard such a thing? Oh, looordy be, what wills I doo?
Rhythm sho did puts me in my place.. Buts I guess I's deserves it cuz I aint white!

I don't know what you'll do.  It hardly matters to me.  I'll bitchslap you like we bitchslapped the south.

Get over yourself you turkey neck jibber jabber honky fool!

What BLM wants effects everyone, not just turkey necked honky fools.

Oh, and there it is, you argue with yourself, by arguing against "the man".

[Opoponax]

Black Lives Matter doesn't raise the ire of white people because it has so much power. It pisses white people off because the vast majority of us are not racist, yet we all get branded with it. We are given the "for us or against us" option and well, fuck that. 

BLM doesn't rise my ire, I'm pretty damned white.  You're describing a sleight that you or "we" or "white people"- but apparently not all of them,  have perceived.

Are you for or against people who are protesting being shot for driving/walking/breathing while black?  Not that laundry list of shit -you- wanted to make it about, as the Speaker for Whitey.  For or against -that-, that's what BLM is about.  I'm sure that answer is for them, with them.  You're a decent human being.  Yeah?

I have no problem with people protesting. I have a problem with people rioting though. And what I wrote about is what a lot of people perceive. Maybe you don't, but tens of millions do.

As to BLM, I happen to think it's chosen some awful martyrs and fomented riots due to the tone of its discourse. And I think what's missing from it is any sense of introspection. There's very little, if anything, that communicates that they need to do something to improve their communities. It's all outwardly directed, and I see absolutely no way that's ever going to improve the lives of black people in this country because that's what's been done since the 1960s and for the amount of effort that's gone into it, the results have been pretty poor. When conservatives excoriate Democrats for the results they've gotten in this particular area, can you really argue with them? 

And what do we, myself included, call Rust Belt Trump voters? Bumpkins, rednecks, hillbillies, etc. And there's no social repercussions for it. We can say, "Go get an education because your factory jobs aren't coming back" and it's perfectly acceptable. The tone can be harsh, dismissive, and unforgiving, as if those aren't real concerns and those aren't real people with real families. But the liberal attitude in general is "tough shit." And now we've seen pushback in the form of the most unqualified bastard to ever be POTUS.

[Drich]

Well, I can happily say white civilisations are definitely not barbaric and war-like. After all, everyone knows the two largest wars fought in history, killing tens of millions apiece were started by black people...


Oh wait.

oh wait indeed, that provision was made in the OP that apparently you did not read.