Looking for comments / ideas for WIP project ABCs of Atheism

[Catholic_Lady]

Well, I know. And I guess values wasn't really the best word for it. But for example, looking at the first 3 letters: for letter A.... I would leave out the first 2 little paragraphs and just keep the third. Letters B and C are fine. 

In principle, that's the approach I would take personally if I were to do a Christian one, so that's my objective advice.

I don't see why you would. The two paragraphs you mention from A seem to be stating things of a factual nature. If facts disturb you . . . I don't know what to tell you, then.

It's not that facts disturb me. It's the impression it might give to a kid, as I said in my first post. 

It would be the equivalent of me writing "Allie the Alligator has friends who don't pray and don't care to build a relationship with God because they do not have faith. But Allie does!" 

I personally would not do that, so there's no reason why I should have a double standard.

[Excited Penguin]

I don't see why you would. The two paragraphs you mention from A seem to be stating things of a factual nature. If facts disturb you . . . I don't know what to tell you, then.

It's not that facts disturb me. It's the impression it might give to a kid, as I said in my first post. 

It would be the equivalent of me writing "Allie the Alligator has friends who don't pray and don't care to build a relationship with God because they do not have faith. But Allie does!" 

I personally would not do that, so there's no reason why I should have a double standard.

Except I don't see anything about caring in the lines submitted by the author at hand. You are imagining negative undertones where there aren't any. To point out differences between people is perfectly OK, CL, kids shouldn't be protected from facts by themselves. Bias I disagree with as much as you do, as I do with anything resembling a hateful predisposition towards other groups of people. But let's be fair and look at this closely. Is there anything of the sort to be found here ? I don't think so. 

At the end of the day people do pray, for example, and it's something that hasn't been demonstrated to work, so it's a waste of time, objectively speaking.  Pointing that out or even alluding to it does no harm to anyone. Which isn't even what happened here.

Rather, it went, her friends like to pray to gods whereas she prefers to find wonderment and comfort in the beauty of proven, objective reality. How is that bad?

[ReptilianPeon]

I think it's awesome!

However I'd say the overall theme here is scepticism rather than atheism. Atheism is just one result of the application of scepticism, and you describe many more too.

Some atheists aren't sceptics, and so it could be misleading in that regard.

I realise scepticism isn't a very child-friendly word though.

I knew somebody once who said they were Atheist but believed in the supernatural. Asking children to understand terms like gnostic and agnostic is probably a bit much. But it depends on the child and their age. Some children manage to be far smarter than the average adult.

[Judashpeters]

I think it's a great idea, I love your art. 

Make sure to work on the way you express some ideas though so that the parents will want their children to read them. Like telling kids they should eat whatever they want and other such things that shouldn't necessarily be their choice, but their parents' is not very good I think. Focus on religion, sure, but don't only talk about it. Don't be afraid to moralize a little, but do it thoughtfully. 

Those are my thoughts. I hope they help!

All good ideas to incorporate into the next round of drafts. You are totally right about the eating bit, and anything else similar. I especially like your recommendation to go ahead and moralize a little. I think I was starting to back off of that idea, but maybe I'll keep kicking it around. Thanks for your time! -JP

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I think it's awesome!

However I'd say the overall theme here is scepticism rather than atheism. Atheism is just one result of the application of scepticism, and you describe many more too.

Some atheists aren't sceptics, and so it could be misleading in that regard.

I realise scepticism isn't a very child-friendly word though.

I totally get what you're saying about "skepticism" vs. "atheism", as well as applications of skepticism.

My goal here is to make it an ABCs of atheism, however (sexy title? - I love atheism MORE than skepticism?) so I want my job to shape all the pages toward atheism. Right now I agree that most are geared towards general skepticism, science, etc, and in the next coming months I'm going to try to figure out how to push everything closer to "atheism".

Can it be done? I don't know, but I'm going to try.

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I think it's awesome!

However I'd say the overall theme here is scepticism rather than atheism. Atheism is just one result of the application of scepticism, and you describe many more too.

Some atheists aren't sceptics, and so it could be misleading in that regard.

I realise scepticism isn't a very child-friendly word though.

That's a good point, OP. You can talk about an atheist culture, though , if you really want to. But will it sell ? Should it ? Who knows.

"Should it?" Ha!

Atheist "culture"? What are you thinking atheist culture would be?

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If I was doing the same thing, except a "Christian ABC", I would leave out the parts where you say "other people do ______, (referring to theists) but so and so does __________!"

...It just gives off the impression of some sort of us vs them mentality and of superiority. It also gives off the impression of defining yourself by your opposition to theists rather than offering something unique to the table. I would just stick to the various descriptions/values of atheism rather than bring other people into it.

Anyway, as a theist myself that's my 2 cents and that's how I would do it if I was doing a Christian ABC's for children.

Thanks for that perspective, and I think you're totally right.

I actually just had my very rough drafts come from the printers and my two kids (4 and 6) were stoked to see a hard copy of the book because they've been watching me sketch and paint in Photoshop.

BUT as I was reading it to them, I was noticing how much of a jerk I was sounding like, and I really don't want the text to read in that way. My problem is going to be that, yes, I want to focus on the positive aspects of atheism, but to keep it grounded in the concept of atheism, I'm wanting to relate it to the theistic counterparts of each concept.

Anyway, just wanted to say I agree with what you're saying more or less. Any ideas are welcome!

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There are no values for atheism and the definition is pretty simple.

Certainly, what this book would really be is antitheistic rather, and I fully support that, CL. Religion is actually evil.

Ah, I see what you're saying.

One of the reasons I wanted to do the book was because of that fact that there are no values inherently tied to atheism. But, my own atheism betters my life in many ways (or so I think?) and the lessons I teach my own kids are often based at least partly in my atheism (atheist world-view?).

I am not against the idea of an anti-theistic ABC, but for now I do want to focus on a positive kid-friendly ABCs about the benefits/joys of atheism.

But again, is that possible? That's what I'm trying to find out as I work through these pages.

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Sorry, my intent was to paste the next pages directly after my first post, but the day got to me. Here are the next ten pages. All text is extremely preliminary and is the very first text I just spewed onto the paper to get rid of the blankness. I'm really looking for whether or not some words are the best words, or if the words are too far from "atheism" or if there are better ways to connect ideas and concepts to atheism in general...




(whoops, O was supposed to have a weird monster-like shadow that the one octopus was pointing to, and the other octopus was supposed to be explaining that it's probably just another octopus based on the shadow...)



(I do know that some religions value the idea of questioning and actually encourage children to question authorities on their scripture...some don't though...so not sure how strong this one is.)

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Aaaand the last few. Again, text is super preliminary blah blah blah. For those of you offering comments, I appreciate it tons.













(As I'm posting these last ones, I'm realizing I should change "S" to "Sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays")

[robvalue]

Fantastic stuff

I understand differentiating between atheism and scepticism may not be worth it for this project. Most atheists, I would say, come to their position through at least some form of scepticism. Just not all of them apply it to other areas very well. I would imagine with each new generation though, the proportion of consistent sceptics is going to increase.

X is for xenophobia

If someone doesn't look enough like you, kill them and take their stuff, and claim God told you to do it.

Y is for Yahweh

He's a cunt, kids. Stay clear of him. He's not real though, so that should be pretty easy.

Z is for zealot

If someone foams at the mouth while pointing at leaves moving and says God is talking to you, then you've found a zealot.

[Judashpeters]

Hey all you fancy folks!

So it's been a LONG time since I've been back here but I wanted to let you all know what I've been up to. I took many of your comments to heart, and am just going to paste a few of my 2nd draft images. Once again, ALL text is still what I call vomit stage (except for the A-page, which DOES represent the direction I want to go in). I'm still trying to tweak the content to revealing the positive benefits of atheism and not JUST skepticism, humanism, etc.

Thanks for all of your amazing thoughts and input last time. I'm just looking back at my shitty 1st draft images and thinking, "Gosh I HAVE to show them my 2nd drafts!"

[robvalue]

Welcome back. Wonderful work

[downbeatplumb]

Hey all you fancy folks!

So it's been a LONG time since I've been back here but I wanted to let you all know what I've been up to. I took many of your comments to heart, and am just going to paste a few of my 2nd draft images. Once again, ALL text is still what I call vomit stage (except for the A-page, which DOES represent the direction I want to go in). I'm still trying to tweak the content to revealing the positive benefits of atheism and not JUST skepticism, humanism, etc.

Thanks for all of your amazing thoughts and input last time. I'm just looking back at my shitty 1st draft images and thinking, "Gosh I HAVE to show them my 2nd drafts!"

Very good. Although if you live in the US you may be lynched.

[Judashpeters]

Hey all you fancy folks!

So it's been a LONG time since I've been back here but I wanted to let you all know what I've been up to. I took many of your comments to heart, and am just going to paste a few of my 2nd draft images. Once again, ALL text is still what I call vomit stage (except for the A-page, which DOES represent the direction I want to go in). I'm still trying to tweak the content to revealing the positive benefits of atheism and not JUST skepticism, humanism, etc.

Thanks for all of your amazing thoughts and input last time. I'm just looking back at my shitty 1st draft images and thinking, "Gosh I HAVE to show them my 2nd drafts!"

Very good. Although if you live in the US you may be lynched.

Ha! There's a reason I'm using a pseudonym.