Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?

[Balaco]

I'll ask the Catholic Forum I've been using if it's cool to link this thread there. Definitely would be interesting to see more theists in the mix here.

[Full Circle]

[robvalue]

I identify as an atheist to try and further break the taboo, to break preconceptions, to support fellow atheists, and to simply be honest. The more "out" atheists there are, the easier it is for the next one to come out, and the harder it is to oppress atheists.



All of the above. Anecdotes are highly unreliable evidence anyway. At best they only tell you what people believe happened. No one is an authority on identifying and classifying miracles. People just find something they consider very out of the ordinary and proclaim, "It's a miracle".

It's a problem of definition. What is a miracle anyway? If it's meant to be God intervening, that means that it's essentially him changing his plan "on the go". Why would he need to do that? If his plan was perfect, it would need no alteration.

And how do you identify one? It's always the argument from ignorance fallacy. People say, "How else do you explain it?" It's irrelevant whether or not I, or anyone else, can explain it. Again, I simply say "I don't know". I don't know what actually happened, or what the explanation is. It doesn't give free license to make up your own explanation without evidence. So what is a miracle? If it's just an unexplained event, then just call it that. No need to assume "God did it". If it's "breaking the laws of nature", then that is an equivocation fallacy, just like with the supernatural in general. We attempt to describe the laws of nature; at no point can we prescribe them. I have a video about this. (I was trying out an angry persona at the time You can skip to 1:00 if you don't want to hear me screwing around at the start.)

Watched through most of the video. Well presented, I'm gathering atheists generally view "supernatural" events or miracles as events that, aside from potentially being lies/distortions of reality thanks to our minds, may simply be out of the windows/models of logic that the religious create.

Looking at this objectively, it seems like belief in these events is another concept that the religious are inclined to believe and defend. Something out of the ordinary may happen, and the minds of the religious are conditioned to feel like it's due to God's intervention. I may bring these points up with some Catholics and share what their defense is.

Thanks for checking it out Good analysis, yes! By all means, I'll be interested to see if there's any cogent defence. I'm always interested in one, I'd actually enjoy one, but they never come.

I'll ask the Catholic Forum I've been using if it's cool to link this thread there. Definitely would be interesting to see more theists in the mix here.

More theists like you, for sure!

[Balaco]

I was told I can't link this thread there.

[Mystical]

I was told I can't link this thread there.

Oops my bad! *smacks forehead

I'm a former mod on here and even I know we can't let you post that link either, not until you've been here
for 30 days! But then.. we aren't much into censoring. Did they give you a time limit or is it indefinite?

I tried desperately to ask a Catholic forum for help once, for a missionary who would be willing to call and speak with my dad--who was threatening to take a walk in the desert and felt god was "okay with it" (he and my brother suffer a severe genetic mental illness). I hoped against all hope they could help him, but.. They didn't even let my post go through to the board! It.. broke my heart at the time. I guess Catholic an Christian forums are picky what does and does not show up on their pages.

[Whateverist]

Good on you for trying though.

[Minimalist]

Balaco.  Do two things for me and yourself.

1.  Watch this video.




and 2, honestly evaluate it in terms of your religion.

[brewer]

I was told I can't link this thread there.

Then just talk us up. Or down. Which ever you think will work.

[johan]

[Mystical]

For god so loved the world, he sacrificed himself to himself to pay himself for the freedom of beings he himself made and gave the ability of consciousness and curiousity, then punished them for using it, and had to "save" them from himself when all he needed to do was say oh okay I forgive you instead of damning an entire population of people for thousands of years, to eternal suffering?! Unless god is held to a standard even higher than him--this doesn't make any sense.

Hell IS in the bible. There's no question about it. Why would an all knowing god (knowing the outcome) do that knowing that the mass majority of its creation would end up suffering for all eternity? I used to placate myself by believing god would surely never leave all of the sinners in hell for all eternity--but, the bible is very clear on this point. And its for this reason, yet another reason, I cannot rectify myself with the Christian god.