Old testament v. new testament

[Minimalist]

If you open your Bible to 1st and 2nd Kings. You will see the amount of 'good' kings being rather small compared to all the 'bad' kings.

There is precious little archaeological evidence for most of them. There are Assyrian references to Amon, Hezekiah and Manessah and a Babylonian reference to Jehoiachin and Zedekiah. There is a probable reference to Ahaz(iah?) in the Tel Dan Stele. Other than that, there isn't much out there.

One school of thought is that the 'good' kings were the ones who tried to assert Judahite independence ( and got their asses kicked for their trouble ) while the bad kings were content to rule as toadies of the Assyrians. How come 'god' didn't help them out? Guess he didn't give a shit.

[Entropist]

The OT is a beautiful picture to show how patient God is.

Amazing.

[fr0d0]

As far as I'm aware there is precious little to research at least historically, but happy to be proven wrong.

I'm suggesting you look thoroughly at the story you're relating. You'll then see the baselessness of assertions that God is in any way bad here.

I would state your brief analysis in stronger terms, ie a genocidal people looking to oust native tribes for their own ends,

That seems to hold true.

and inventing a god to justify there actions and hold a concensus amongst themselves despite their own savagery.

This is clearly invention.

But theism cannot duck this. Either there is truth in the claim that a god murdered the first born of Egypt or there isn't.

There isn't, because that's an inaccurate representation of the information.

[chatpilot]

"The OT is a beautiful picture to show how patient God is."

Oh yeah he was patient alright; I see that shining through every time I read Genesis chapter 6. Nothing like a good old flood to destroy most of every life form on Earth. Let's not forget how he also cursed all of mankind in the garden for the disobedience of one couple and not only did he curse man he even cursed the animals who had nothing to do with it. It is referred to as the fall of mankind in the O.T. and N.T. but apparently God took it out on the animals too. Is it because Satan disguised himself as a snake? What the fuck did the animal kingdom have to do with any of that?

[Minimalist]

The OT is a beautiful picture to show how patient God is.

Yeah....

Joshua 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

god's a fucking prince.

[FadingW]

How do you feel about the old testament god?

There was a whole lot of killing. Not a whole lot of what I would call positive interaction.

Some make the argument that a creator has only rights, but no responsibility over the created. This seems to me a rather morally repugnant view.

There are some things the average joe would do to prevent if he had the power. If god supposedly has more power. So shouldn't we expect a god to live up to the hype? But of course such was not recorded to have happened.

How do you justify what he supposedly got up to? OR do you just write it off as a load of old story tales and believe that the new testament is the "true" word of god?

I don't believe in justifying mass murder or giving people tests knowing they would fail or destroying a person's life over a bet.

But if god is the creator of all physical reality, then god could be said to make morality.

For example, we believe that murder is wrong because it causes pain, because it deprives of will, for a host of other reasons. But these are valid only in such realities where bodies exist as they are.

Supposedly god could create a hypothetical universe where nobody dies. In such a place, the concept of murder is meaningless.

Still, I lean towards the idea that if god commands good then it is because it is good, rather than something being good because god commands it.

If they are the same entity, why are they so different?

Maybe god grew up?

Although, comparing an undeserved violent but final death to unending torment, perhaps the final death is more merciful?

[Entropist]

Oh yeah he was patient alright; I see that shining through every time I read Genesis chapter 6. Nothing like a good old flood to destroy most of every life form on Earth...

It is obvious that this Yahweh dude seriously needs to take some anger management courses. When people do things I don't like or agree with, I don't fucking wipe them out. And this asshole is supposed to be a role model?

[chatpilot]

Captain Scarlet:" But theism cannot duck this. Either there is truth in the claim that a god murdered the first born of Egypt or there isn't."

fr0d0: "There isn't, because that's an inaccurate representation of the information."

What are you trying to refute here that it did not happen? Or that somehow it was justified because it was God that did it?

10And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land. Exodus 11:10

12For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. Exodus 12:12

It appears in verse 10 that Pharaoh had no choice in the matter since God wanted to prove to the Hebrew that he was their god and that he was the one and only true god. So he used Pharaoh and the Egyptian people to serve as an example to those who disobeyed him. Again not only did he kill every firstborn in all of Egypt but every firstborn of all the livestock as well. Now if that is not a murderous tyrant bastard, then I don't know what is.

[DeistPaladin]

Jesus interpreted the OT correctly, explaining what the laws really meant and what aspirations to Godliness really were.

[solja247]

There is precious little archaeological evidence for most of them. There are Assyrian references to Amon, Hezekiah and Manessah and a Babylonian reference to Jehoiachin and Zedekiah. There is a probable reference to Ahaz(iah?) in the Tel Dan Stele. Other than that, there isn't much out there.

I think, its safe to say, we will find the evidence. People have been skeptical about the Bible and pretty much always proven wrong.
'The Bible talks about Hitites? The Bible is a load of rubbish, there were no Hitities!'
'The Bible being accuarte? Its a fabrication, we dont have any dont back to BCE.'
'David was a myth and so was Goliath'
I could go on and on, but the Bible is being proven more and more...

Oh yeah he was patient alright; I see that shining through every time I read Genesis chapter 6. Nothing like a good old flood to destroy most of every life form on Earth. Let's not forget how he also cursed all of mankind in the garden for the disobedience of one couple and not only did he curse man he even cursed the animals who had nothing to do with it. It is referred to as the fall of mankind in the O.T. and N.T. but apparently God took it out on the animals too. Is it because Satan disguised himself as a snake? What the fuck did the animal kingdom have to do with any of that?

How about you dismantle my arguements with out resorting to straw men and reading the Bible like a fundamentalist .

---

That video is ridiculous! I agreed with him untill he started proof texting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis