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Prayer
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Yes, I know the rationalisations at work. I just go by what people tell me and what I know of the person to make an evaluation.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (December 5, 2016 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: May i ask why it matters though? Not trying to be disrespectful or pick a fight. Just genuinely curious. I mean, if praying brings someone emotional peace, is therapeutic to them, and helps them get through tough times, why do some of you seem so irritated by them praying? The only problems I have with praying are: 1) When people pray instead of taking positive action themselves. People have died over this sort of shit; and 2) When someone I don't know from a can of paint decides that he's going to publicly, pray, right then and there, for me (given my apparent disability) -- or worse yet, tries to insist on my joining in.  (December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think you understand how our beliefs work. So basically - you're hoping they will toughen up and leave you the f*ck alone... (December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them.For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. So - for somebody else to get off their a*se and help them, so you don't have to... (December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through. So that they accept their suffering and stop making a fuss... (December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: ...things like that. Yeah, things like that...
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
Besides which, that's skirting awfully close to the "there's something broken in you" clause that I cited earlier.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (December 5, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:(December 5, 2016 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: May i ask why it matters though? Not trying to be disrespectful or pick a fight. Just genuinely curious. I mean, if praying brings someone emotional peace, is therapeutic to them, and helps them get through tough times, why do some of you seem so irritated by them praying? Both are perfectly justifiable reasons to feel irritated. Imho.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh 
Jesus only advised his followers to pray one prayer, which is not a request for anything aside from one's daily bread, forgiveness of sins, and strength in the face of temptation and of deliverance from evil. That aside, it is an affirmation of complete submission to his will.
Oh, there's also some stuff about Pharisees making a show of prayer in public and counsel for believers to pray in secret/private. It may be a "nice" thing to tell someone you'll pray for them, but it doesn't seem to be in line with what Jesus counselled, it seems presumptuous, and it smacks of self-congratulations. 
Jesster
Your friendly neighborhood heathen  Religious Views: I am the creator goddess. Prove me wrong.
I have a problem with prayer for reasons stated here already as well as one new one. I've had quite a few people pray for me based on their own judgement of what they think is wrong with me instead of trying to understand me. It's infuriating when it creates a social wall between people like that.
(December 5, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:(December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think you understand how our beliefs work. 1. No, I hope for themselves they find the strength to battle through tough times for their own well being. 2. No. That's why I keep saying we should help if we can along with the praying, not just pray and leave it at that when we can help. I didn't mean someone else do it so I dont, I meant others besides just me do it too. Way to twist my words and the intention of my post.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  RE: Prayer
December 5, 2016 at 4:05 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2016 at 4:05 pm by Whateverist.)
(December 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think you understand how our beliefs work. Was going to say how much your example had inspired me and was looking into Catholicism, but screw it then. Why bother? RE: Prayer
December 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2016 at 4:09 pm by Cyberman.)
(December 5, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Both are perfectly justifiable reasons to feel irritated. Imho. Here's another example. I know you don't have to take my testimony at face value, but it is what it is. I've spoken enough - far too much, actually - of the trouble that Shell and I have been having with a guy who believes himself to be xtian (when it suits him, anyway). He is truly unbalanced, manipulative, domineering, and a really detestable piece of work. A couple of months ago, she was in his car, despite all my exhortations against having anything to do with him, and she rang me up so I could hear him kicking off at her. What I heard on that call chilled me to the core and will never leave me. He was quite literally deranged. He was screaming and babbling about Shell being possessed of an unclean spirit and kept ordering it to leave her body. He was shouting to his lord to come down and save her and him, I mean literally screaming it out like some drugged-up televangelist. When she tried to say anything, he shouted at her viciously - she told me right in her face - to shut up and stop disrespecting his praying. He started spouting random gibberish, which is supposed to be speaking in tongues. I couldn't see him, thank fuck, but I imagined and Shell later confirmed that he was shaking, sweating, blood vessels bulging, eyes popping, drooling, basically he'd lost it. It was the closest I've ever been to true insanity. I kept telling Shell to get the fuck out of that car and to a place with other people. This is a guy, you may remember, who once tried to push her out of a moving vehilce into oncoming traffic. Who knows what the fuck he was going to do in this utterly deranged state? Thankfully, he calmed down enough to give her chance to get out of there and escape. But she still has nightmares about him coming into her home and doing it again. I truly wish I was making this up.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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