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Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
#91
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
(30th December 2016, 12:12)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No, he wasn't. He was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg, as required by the Constitution of the Weimar Republic.

Hindenburg didn't like him. But he trusted Papen's judgment. That's why he appointed Hitler's coalition. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a republican. He wanted the monarchy back, but he wasn't fond of the Nazis either. Interesting tidbit. After the war, the Hindenburg/Hitler crisis was the reason why the German president no longer was elected by popular vote but by the representatives. The power of the office was significantly limited in order to not have another head of state being able to appoint such a government.
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#92
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease......
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#93
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
(28th December 2016, 16:49)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(28th December 2016, 14:56)Secular Elf Wrote: Oh, wait, I was just told by an archaeologist who saw the tomb carvings and read the hieroglyphs that the Egyptians built them as tombs for their pharaohs.  Oh, right, that fact does not mean shit to him.

No one was ever actually found entombed in a pyramid, so that's pretty unlikely. If anything they were probably built for ritual activities corresponding with astrological events. The hieroglyphs appear to be more of a collection of spells and incantations to be used during such ritual activities, kind of like the stations of the cross along the perimeter of a cathedral.

(28th December 2016, 14:56)Secular Elf Wrote: Yes, sue people behind fake news and hold them accountable.
Starting with Dan Rather, right? Get a clue.

It is not necessary to have a body, but if you have EVIDENCE of burial of a body in its cultural context, such as:

"There's evidence of burial inside the pyramids: "Pyramids were definitely used as tombs: burial equipment, such as sarcophagi, jewellery, mummies or mummy parts were found in some of them. (The others were robbed in antiquity, or in a few cases the burial chambers are below the water table)," archaeologist Deborah Sweeney from Tel Aviv University in Israel told Jewish news site Haaretz over email." Source: http://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-how-s...-not-grain

(30th December 2016, 12:12)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(28th December 2016, 14:56)Secular Elf Wrote: Hitler was elected by the German People, a small margin mind you, but he was fairly elected.  We all know, or should know at least, how that turned out.

No, he wasn't. He was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg, as required by the Constitution of the Weimar Republic.

(28th December 2016, 14:56)Secular Elf Wrote: Conservatism is that enemy.  It has become a threat to everyone, it is dangerous, and it needs to be put down.  I have ideas for the formation of this movement.  But it will never take off unless people are willing to do the work that is necessary to make it possible.

And just how do you propose dealing with conservatives? Round them up and put them in camps? What do you mean when you write, "needs to be put down"? Short of unConstitutional measures, I doubt you'll be able to do anything, and you'll have to settle for simply trying to change their minds.

I'm glad for that, myself; and I'm glad that there are people across the political spectrum here in America. I shudder at the thought of homogenized thought, and think a plurality of viewpoints best serves this country.

Please allow me to turn the question around. What will you do when the Conservatives vote on and pass measures violating your civil rights, and rounding us up to be put into camps, simply because we are secular, or atheist, or agnostic, or gay, or intellectual, or refuse their brand of Christianity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2839yEazcs

Is it not better to be prepared? Dominionists are in the military and they have become a problem. Mikey Weinstein of the MRFF (Military Religious Freedom Foundation) and his group are fighting abuses and prejudice within the military due to Dominionist activism https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-a7AYQblig

To answer your question directly: curtail Conservative power by removing them from any political office and from the military and from any judiciary service when they have been proven to use their offices to forward theocracy. Remove them by recall and/or impeachment, and if need be, by force. Hold the rank and file accountable for voting Dominionists into office, through shaming and blacklisting. And when they threaten our existence as a people, as secularists/progressives/liberals, go to war with them. A real war. It is a cultural war at this time, for now, but they started this shit through their belligerance.

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/2...ARE-at-War

I do not care if anyone thinks I am off my rocker. I am quite sane, for the record. If I sound radical, yes, I admit it, I have become radical. Conservatism and Dominionism is why I am radical, simply for the reason that these people have radically threatened my people.

Look! We should all be mindful and understand what is at stake here: our freedoms, our American Republic, our lives. Conservatives and Dominionists threaten all of these. We should at least be aware of this and prepare for the worst.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."--Thomas Jefferson
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#94
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
Elf, I prefer non-violent solutions, and am utterly opposed to leveraging agreement by using anything other than reasoning and the ballot. The fact that some extremist conservatives advocate for their favorite brand of thought-policing rouses my objections, of course; but rounding them up and incarcerating them, much less taking up arms, when a nonviolent approach is still working, is extremism at the other end of the spectrum, and I can't go along with it.

In that preference, we obviously disagree. I'll leave it at that.
Those who see only what they wish to see are doomed to rot in the stink of their own perceptions. -- Frank Herbert
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#95
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
(11th January 2017, 16:31)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Elf, I prefer non-violent solutions, and am utterly opposed to leveraging agreement by using anything other than reasoning and the ballot. The fact that some extremist conservatives advocate for their favorite brand of thought-policing rouses my objections, of course; but rounding them up and incarcerating them, much less taking up arms, when a nonviolent approach is still working, is extremism at the other end of the spectrum, and I can't go along with it.

In that preference, we obviously disagree. I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough. All I am asking is for the secular and progressive communities to seriously consider organizing in defense of ourselves for a possible pogrom against us. The extremism of Dominionist Conservative ideology is an existential threat against us. They hate us and they want to kill us. Never think that they will never gain power. They want America to be a fascist Christian state and they want power and control and they want it BAD! Why the hell does anyone think they have been working so hard to turn the progress that has been made backwards to their imagined paradise of a so-called "Christian Nation?!" Why does anyone think that all their efforts have been towards tearing down the wall of separation between government and religion. The moment that America does become an official Christian Nation then it is game over. This is serious shit folks, and we better had take it more seriously than we have before.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."--Thomas Jefferson
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#96
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
Valid points, but perhaps a little too early to sound the sirens, though I'd call anyone who thinks those sirens will never need to be sounded naive.  

The American Taliban is alive and well.  They have more resources and more power at their disposal than the Taliban ever did at their height (more loyal adherents, too)...and we can probably call the last few decades for the American Taliban the low water mark for them. What they've been up to, what they look like...this is them at their least effective. Once we let that sink in, ofc they're a credible threat to us, just as the Taliban was a credible threat in the Middle East even when the people living there thought of them as a joke. Saw how that played out, didn't we?
Eat em up beat em up then switch sides.


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#97
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
I think the power of the religious right has been waning over the last twenty-five years, and demographics are against them.

I'm not counseling complacency, just not confusing raindrops for a falling sky.
Those who see only what they wish to see are doomed to rot in the stink of their own perceptions. -- Frank Herbert
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#98
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
A motivated and organized minority is immanently more capable than a loosely aligned and complacent majority.  The taliban were a bunch of jokish nobodies....and then poof. Taliban.  I agree, though, this is them at their weakest. Look at what they've accomplished, at their weakest....

In another context...by the time Yall Qaeda pulls it's own version of the Twin Towers, preventing them from becoming what they must inevitably become will be moot point.
Eat em up beat em up then switch sides.


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#99
RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
(13th January 2017, 18:00)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think the power of the religious right has been waning over the last twenty-five years, and demographics are against them.

I'm not counseling complacency, just not confusing raindrops for a falling sky.

I think it doesn't matter if it's been vaning. All it needs is (religious) right legislators and no opposition to speak of.

Personally I think Trump is mainly in it for the glory and some additional money being funneled his way. But I don't see him putting up a fight against religious nutters either.
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RE: Trump and Conservatism As A Threat: What Should Be Done?
Trumps definitely not one of them, but he's great cover for them, and as a politician, the climate he's created must seem like a gift from god falling out of the sky.
Eat em up beat em up then switch sides.


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