Christianity actually condones murder

[Cyberman]

Yahbut - that's old testament. Just like the... ten... ummm...

[Astonished]

Yahbut - that's old testament. Just like the... ten... ummm...

Which ones? There's multiple different sets. Not that most Christians know that. I mean, you can kill a goat, but don't you dare boil it in its own mother's milk. Only god gets to indulge in adding insult to injury.

[Cyberman]

Parody not your bag, huh?

[Astonished]

Parody not your bag, huh?

At the expense of the opportunity to teach a theist something they don't know, nope.

[Cyberman]

You don't need my help to do that.

[Brian37]

On its face, this is a ridiculous commandment since (A) Yahweh kills and orders to be killed untold numbers throughout the OT and (B) even leaving that aside, the entire sacrificial system is premised on a breathtaking amount of slaughter. Believers, of course, wave away all of that by appeal to divine command morality. If God does it or orders it, it is necessarily good no matter how arbitrary and evil it may appear (and who are you, clay pot, to question the designs of your maker?).

This universe and all in it belong to Him, He is supreme, greater than all his creation and has the right to do with it as He sees fit. Yes Christians are clay vessels, being molded by the great Potter. Those who are not Christians are being molded by a corrupt world. I'm not saying Christians are better than non-christians what I am saying is that we have been given a better and more perfect moral base, one we should practice daily not just when we find it convenient. There is no reason to question the One who creates us, we are the clay and He is the potter, but then it seems you have trouble digesting this way of living.

If the commandment is understood instead to be, "Thou shall not murder," then the commandment is pointless in a 'no shit, Sherlock' kind of way, since "murder" means unjustified/unlawful killing. But maybe the chosen people needed reminding of such a basic moral point. At least this commandment isn't directed at alleged thought crimes like so many others.

That's exactly what it means and think you know this. Seems the first born man did not have a grasp on this moral idea and if God had let the situation go then we would have a right to believe it so. However there was punishment and later a commandment written against murder, seems to me every state in this union has this written down. So are both reminders that we should not murder or a reminder if someone does there's a punishment. 
On thought crimes, Jesus was telling us that our thoughts were what we act upon and when we begin to think wrongly we will allow those thoughts to manifest into sin.

No, Christianity as such does not condone murder. But many Christians reveal much about their ethical bankruptcy when they stoop to explain and justify the atrocities in their holy book while telling the rest of us that we are unreasonable to question the 'goodness' or necessity of such bloodshed. I include the torture and execution of your savior in that observation.

Thanks for being honest about Christianity not condoning murder, some others here seem to think differently. To question God is not for us to do because we know He is perfect in all He says and does, I understand that non-believers do not understand why we Christians do not question God on these things.
The execution of Christ was planned before creation, He could have stopped it at any point, but He didn't, ever wonder why He the omniscent God allowed this thing to happen. Something to work over in one's mind even if one doesn't believe.

GC

"Thou shalt not kill" is cherry picking the bible. It most certainly is ok in the OT and NT and end times. 

Even in the NT the Jesus CHARACTER, because that is all he is said "Think not that I bring peace, I bring not peace, but a sword". He even tells you in the NT to abandon family and friends if they don't follow him. Now, if you think those words would not cause someone to resort to violence to defend the religion, you are delusional. 

The OT is full of God committing acts of violence or condoning acts of violence on other tribes. Not even "thou shalt not kill" is the top commandment, he doesn't get to humans until the 5th. The first 4 are all about kissing his ass. 

So that "Thou shalt not kill" really means don't kill anyone in your own tribe. Outside that at best, you tolerate outsiders as long as they know their place. Fine print is a bitch, and the bible is full of contradictions. 

Now again, if your alleged God is "all powerful" and "all loving" it would seem a pretty shitty thing to do to leave humans with a assembly manual nobody can agree on and left with several versions to which people still murder each other over. It would be like if you had two kids and stuck knives (different interpretations) into their hands, and said "Stab each other till someone dies, and their interpretation is right and because they survived, they show they love me the best".

The bible like the OT like the Koran are all gang manuals, where the only real tolerance was for the people back then when those books of myth were written, were if the other tribes submitted.

[Godscreated]

From the Ten Commandments: Thou shall not kill.

GC

Just curious, were you not aware that these were only to apply to the Hebrews? Anyone not of their tribe was fair game. Not to mention the penalties for breaking rules like picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

You need to prove the commandment meant Hebrew's were not to kill Hebrew's only.

GC

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GC

Deuteronomy Chapter 13


6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 ; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.


If you don't like telling the truth, just say so. It's all right. It's pretty easy to tell most of the time.

It seems you are struggling with the understanding of the OT laws. This particular law has a death sentence that goes with it. God wanted His people to stay pure in their worship of Him, there were terrible consequences for disobeying God on this point. Let's see if you know through the scriptures why there was terrible consequences. I'm not interested in what might pop into your head, I've heard all those tired arguments, go get it from the Bible if you are interested in discussing the scriptures.

GC

[Astonished]

Just curious, were you not aware that these were only to apply to the Hebrews? Anyone not of their tribe was fair game. Not to mention the penalties for breaking rules like picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

You need to prove the commandment meant Hebrew's were not to kill Hebrew's only.

GC

---

Deuteronomy Chapter 13


6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 ; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.


If you don't like telling the truth, just say so. It's all right. It's pretty easy to tell most of the time.

It seems you are struggling with the understanding of the OT laws. This particular law has a death sentence that goes with it. God wanted His people to stay pure in their worship of Him, there were terrible consequences for disobeying God on this point. Let's see if you know through the scriptures why there was terrible consequences. I'm not interested in what might pop into your head, I've heard all those tired arguments, go get it from the Bible if you are interested in discussing the scriptures.

GC

I'm not interested in discussing puerile nonsense. Just pointing out that you shouldn't base your life around it and display your staggering ignorance of it and then project your own intellectual inadequacy on someone right after they've demonstrated beyond dispute that you're just plain wrong about what you claimed.

[Godscreated]

"Thou shalt not kill" is cherry picking the bible. It most certainly is ok in the OT and NT and end times. 

Even in the NT the Jesus CHARACTER, because that is all he is said "Think not that I bring peace, I bring not peace, but a sword". He even tells you in the NT to abandon family and friends if they don't follow him. Now, if you think those words would not cause someone to resort to violence to defend the religion, you are delusional. 

That's not cherry picking, it's a direct commandment from God.

Jesus wasn't referring to a real sword, Jesus meant that wars would be fought because of his teachings and what He had done for mankind, He also meant there would people who wanted to kill the church and that there would be large disagreements within the church and so on.
Jesus said to put Him first above all things including family, Jesus was teaching that putting him first in a person's life would result in a better relationship with him and in turn would better all of a persons relationships. I know this to be true because I've experienced this personally.

The OT is full of God committing acts of violence or condoning acts of violence on other tribes. Not even "thou shalt not kill" is the top commandment, he doesn't get to humans until the 5th. The first 4 are all about kissing his ass. 

God as the supreme creator of the universe owns it all, yes even you, so He has the right to do what He wants with His creation. Just like I have the right to destroy a piece of furniture that I build. God did not condoned acts of war on other nations He command it for a purpose. Do you even know what that purpose was? If not then why are you trying to argue what God did or did not do, seems senseless to me a waste of your time.
The first 4 commandments are about having respect for the one who gives you life and allows you to live it.

So that "Thou shalt not kill" really means don't kill anyone in your own tribe. Outside that at best, you tolerate outsiders as long as they know their place. Fine print is a bitch, and the bible is full of contradictions. 

Seems you and Astonished are trying to use the same argument, tell me who was the originator and who is the copyist? Like I said to Astonished, you need to prove that's the meaning of "Thou shall not kill" and do it biblical, not some random thought from your mind.
By the way, there's no contradictions in the scriptures, contradictions seem to be there because of your lack of biblical understanding.

Now again, if your alleged God is "all powerful" and "all loving" it would seem a pretty shitty thing to do to leave humans with a assembly manual nobody can agree on and left with several versions to which people still murder each other over. It would be like if you had two kids and stuck knives (different interpretations) into their hands, and said "Stab each other till someone dies, and their interpretation is right and because they survived, they show they love me the best".

That's what I mean by not using random thoughts, they turn out as silly as the one above. Christians are not killing over different translations, most Christians use the one they can understand the best or the one their pastor preaches from, it makes it easier to follow and take notes that way. I personally have several different translation, some are more clear in some areas than others, but you know what they all say the same thing, they never contradict each other. You stated versions as if the different translations were telling different stories that's why this explanation, I want you to understand so you can rid yourself of such silly thoughts as you showed above.

GC

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You need to prove the commandment meant Hebrew's were not to kill Hebrew's only.

GC

---

It seems you are struggling with the understanding of the OT laws. This particular law has a death sentence that goes with it. God wanted His people to stay pure in their worship of Him, there were terrible consequences for disobeying God on this point. Let's see if you know through the scriptures why there was terrible consequences. I'm not interested in what might pop into your head, I've heard all those tired arguments, go get it from the Bible if you are interested in discussing the scriptures.

GC

I'm not interested in discussing puerile nonsense. Just pointing out that you shouldn't base your life around it and display your staggering ignorance of it and then project your own intellectual inadequacy on someone right after they've demonstrated beyond dispute that you're just plain wrong about what you claimed.

The only thing you have accomplished thus far in your discussion with me is your total lack of understanding of the Bible. Your ignorance stands out like a sore thumb and not only that you've proved nothing except to delude yourself in believing you know one iota about the scriptures. Until you can give me an answer to the question I posed to you I will consider you have nothing of value to discuss.

GC

[Astonished]

"Thou shalt not kill" is cherry picking the bible. It most certainly is ok in the OT and NT and end times. 

Even in the NT the Jesus CHARACTER, because that is all he is said "Think not that I bring peace, I bring not peace, but a sword". He even tells you in the NT to abandon family and friends if they don't follow him. Now, if you think those words would not cause someone to resort to violence to defend the religion, you are delusional. 

That's not cherry picking, it's a direct commandment from God.

Jesus wasn't referring to a real sword, Jesus meant that wars would be fought because of his teachings and what He had done for mankind, He also meant there would people who wanted to kill the church and that there would be large disagreements within the church and so on.
Jesus said to put Him first above all things including family, Jesus was teaching that putting him first in a person's life would result in a better relationship with him and in turn would better all of a persons relationships. I know this to be true because I've experienced this personally.

The OT is full of God committing acts of violence or condoning acts of violence on other tribes. Not even "thou shalt not kill" is the top commandment, he doesn't get to humans until the 5th. The first 4 are all about kissing his ass. 

God as the supreme creator of the universe owns it all, yes even you, so He has the right to do what He wants with His creation. Just like I have the right to destroy a piece of furniture that I build. God did not condoned acts of war on other nations He command it for a purpose. Do you even know what that purpose was? If not then why are you trying to argue what God did or did not do, seems senseless to me a waste of your time.
The first 4 commandments are about having respect for the one who gives you life and allows you to live it.

So that "Thou shalt not kill" really means don't kill anyone in your own tribe. Outside that at best, you tolerate outsiders as long as they know their place. Fine print is a bitch, and the bible is full of contradictions. 

Seems you and Astonished are trying to use the same argument, tell me who was the originator and who is the copyist? Like I said to Astonished, you need to prove that's the meaning of "Thou shall not kill" and do it biblical, not some random thought from your mind.
By the way, there's no contradictions in the scriptures, contradictions seem to be there because of your lack of biblical understanding.

Now again, if your alleged God is "all powerful" and "all loving" it would seem a pretty shitty thing to do to leave humans with a assembly manual nobody can agree on and left with several versions to which people still murder each other over. It would be like if you had two kids and stuck knives (different interpretations) into their hands, and said "Stab each other till someone dies, and their interpretation is right and because they survived, they show they love me the best".

That's what I mean by not using random thoughts, they turn out as silly as the one above. Christians are not killing over different translations, most Christians use the one they can understand the best or the one their pastor preaches from, it makes it easier to follow and take notes that way. I personally have several different translation, some are more clear in some areas than others, but you know what they all say the same thing, they never contradict each other. You stated versions as if the different translations were telling different stories that's why this explanation, I want you to understand so you can rid yourself of such silly thoughts as you showed above.

GC

---

I'm not interested in discussing puerile nonsense. Just pointing out that you shouldn't base your life around it and display your staggering ignorance of it and then project your own intellectual inadequacy on someone right after they've demonstrated beyond dispute that you're just plain wrong about what you claimed.

The only thing you have accomplished thus far in your discussion with me is your total lack of understanding of the Bible. Your ignorance stands out like a sore thumb and not only that you've proved nothing except to delude yourself in believing you know one iota about the scriptures. Until you can give me an answer to the question I posed to you I will consider you have nothing of value to discuss.

GC

Totally, utterly laughable. Projecting your own failures onto others, typical. While you try to explain why 2+2=5, our attempts to correct you are being ignored and called into question when it's your phony god's obvious imperfect human nature shining through and embarrassing you both. I'm sorry if your lack of reading comprehension is this severe but that'll happen when you only ever read one book. Called circular logic, maybe try stepping off that track, you might learn something worthwhile.