Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[Autolite]

When I was a little kid, I left a tooth under my pillow hoping to cash in with a visit from the Tooth Fairy. The next morning, to my disappointment, the tooth was still there and there was only the tooth.

Mom said that Jesus told the Tooth Fairy I had been a little shit all week and that I didn't deserve any reward. That kinda screwed me up a bit...

[Catholic_Lady]

Oh I get what the argument is about that, CL. I just don't think that all beliefs need to be respected. If we can't point out the flaws in a belief, how can we ever really talk about the belief without coddling others all the time? Disrespecting someone's beliefs is also not equal to disrespecting the believer.

But that's exactly what I explained in my post. It IS disrespectful to the person's character when you equate their belief, to a belief that would make someone a crazy person (ie belief in the tooth fairy/santa clause/easter bunny).

[Edwardo Piet]

There is a big difference between disagreeing and disrespect. Saying that Bonhoeffer's faith was in error is fine. Saying his faith was ridiculous (or delusional) is disrespectful.

Why are your beliefs deserving of respect and mine are not?  It is my belief that your faith is ridiculous.  That is my actual, sincerely held belief.  I believe "douchebag" is the word you used to describe someone who holds that belief.

Exactly my point that Neo was the one who started with the insults. You think being the key to The Matrix he'd know better. It's about time Morpheus whipped his double-standard-holding homophobic ass into shape, I reckon.

[I_am_not_mafia]

As I said on a different thread, one of the double standards I see among some people here (not all) is that they are quick to attribute a person's bad actions to their religious beliefs. But when a person does something good after being inspired/influenced by their religious beliefs to do so, all of the sudden religion has nothing to do with that person's actions.

This is one of the main reasons I don't post on atheist boards that often anymore. There is a legitimate prejudice against theism that goes beyond criticism and skepticism and enters the realm of bigotry. Being a theist, any kind of theist, is seen as more than just flawed belief by some, but as an intractable character defect that compromises everything about the individual. There are certainly some theists whose convoluted beliefs make this a reality, but a non-insignificant portion of atheists on online communities like this one incorrectly project the psychosis of fundamentalists onto theists of all stripes.

Especially when you see many of the same intellectual flaws being carried out by atheists when discussing a completely different subject. It's understandable though. Being raised in a religious environment, or a scientifically literate environment, doesn't just determine what you believe to be true, but also how you think about new things. So if you're raised to respect figures of authority, you may eventually realise that your religion is incorrect and ask awkward questions of your priest but still fall into the same trap when evaluating what a government official, public speaker or corporation has told you.

Conditioning takes a long time to break.

[Catholic_Lady]

Here's the thing. I think the belief that Buddha is a God and that Mohammed spoke to an angel is 100% false. I wouldn't mind being critical of those beliefs, and I don't mind other people being critical of those beliefs. But I would never compare those beliefs to beliefs in the tooth fairy. And I would not be ok with other people doing so, either.

While I think Buddha being a God is as false as the existence of the tooth fairy, believing in Buddha doesn't make someone a messed up, childish, stupid person in our society. Believing in the tooth fairy, does.

So if I tell a Buddhist, or a Muslim, that their beliefs are equal to belief in tooth fairies, I am essentially calling them crazy/stupid/childish/messed up. That is absolutely an insult to their character.

[Jesster]

Oh I get what the argument is about that, CL. I just don't think that all beliefs need to be respected. If we can't point out the flaws in a belief, how can we ever really talk about the belief without coddling others all the time? Disrespecting someone's beliefs is also not equal to disrespecting the believer.

But that's exactly what I explained in my post. It IS disrespectful to the person's character when you equate their belief, to a belief that would make someone a crazy person (ie belief in the tooth fairy/santa clause/easter bunny).

And I disagree that it is disrespectful to the person. If someone believes in something that I see as ridiculous, I am not going to lie to them about how I see it. I respect their right to hold those beliefs and I hold a default level of respect for the person, but I do not respect the beliefs. If I don't think someone's beliefs hold true to reality, I think it is far more respectful to the person to be honest with them.

Also, I never said I was calling anyone crazy. That would be disrespectful to the person, and that is not what I am doing.

[Edwardo Piet]

In some ways I'd say belief in God is more ridiculous and childish than belief in the Tooth Fairy.

Intelligent people can have stupid beliefs. Just like how good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things.

People are complex. I am not insulting people by insulting their belief. I'm insulting someone when I stay stuff like Neo is a total twatface for creating a thread calling atheists douchebags and childish when all they're doing is recognizing his own silly belief for what it is, silly. And making a realistic comparision. He's acting insulted and ironically he's the first one to sling insults.

[Catholic_Lady]

But that's exactly what I explained in my post. It IS disrespectful to the person's character when you equate their belief, to a belief that would make someone a crazy person (ie belief in the tooth fairy/santa clause/easter bunny).

And I disagree that it is disrespectful to the person. If someone believes in something that I see as ridiculous, I am not going to lie to them about how I see it. I respect their right to hold those beliefs and I hold a default level of respect for the person, but I do not respect the beliefs. If I don't think someone's beliefs hold true to reality, I think it is far more respectful to the person to be honest with them.

Also, I never said I was calling anyone crazy. That would be disrespectful to the person, and that is not what I am doing.

I think we may be on 2 different ships. I'm talking specifically about equating someone's beliefs to beliefs in things that would make them crazy in our society.  

You can think someone's beliefs are in error/ridiculous/false, while still not equating it to belief in the tooth fairy. Because when you do that, you are essentially calling them crazy, bc in our society, only crazy ppl believe in the tooth fairy. 

It's like my example with cheating on your spouse. You can tell someone that cheating on their spouse is wrong/ridiculous/crappy. But when you equate that act to something that only a messed up person would do, like having sex with children, then you are essentially calling them messed up. Because only messed up adults would have sex with kids.

[Jesster]

I think we may be on 2 different ships. I'm talking specifically about equating someone's beliefs to beliefs in things that would make them crazy in our society.  

You can think someone's beliefs are in error/ridiculous/false, while still not equating it to belief in the tooth fairy. Because when you do that, you are essentially calling them crazy, bc in our society, only crazy ppl believe in the tooth fairy. 

It's like my example with cheating on your spouse. You can tell someone that cheating on their spouse is wrong/ridiculous/crappy. But when you equate that act to something that only a messed up person would do, like having sex with children, then you are essentially calling them messed up. Because only messed up adults would have sex with kids.

Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods. I think it's right to call out tooth fairy beliefs in the same way it's right to call out god beliefs. It's the beliefs I am pointing at and not the person with the beliefs.

[Asmodee]

All it takes is a childish disposition to believe in tooth fairies -or- god fairies.

You are basically saying that the admirable people I listed in the OP have childish dispositions. How is that not insulting?

Okay, the people you listed in the OP are douchebags instead.  Is that better?