Do you think American soldiers are put on too high of a pedestal

[abaris]

CL, read what the early church fathers like Tertullian had to say on war, Capital Punishment or military service. Only with the Constantinian buttkissing contest of 313 they performed a complete turnaround. But one of the reasons why the church lost all credit with me.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Not trying to be too politically correct about it. For example, pilots flying overhead would see the enemy, but because they were in a particular location or weren't particularly doing anything threatening, they weren't allowed to target them.

Erm...I wouldn't call things like rules of engagement or limits to what the military can do as being 'politically correct.'

In that war, target lists were developed that made no military sense -- for instance, we couldn't attack shipping bringing replenishment SA-2 missiles into Haiphong, but on the target lists were sites where the batteries were operational. The best place to defeat any weapon is in the supply chain, before it may be brought to bear on your soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

That targeting decision was politically motivated, as a result of the policy of gradual escalation, and dictated from DC. It's an easy priority to establish when it ain't your ass flying into a barrage of SAMs and 23-mm fire.

[Minimalist]

Carter, to my knowledge, was the only one not going to war.

And the republicunts still hate him for that.... that and all this 'helping the poor shit' after he got out of office.  Carter may well have be one of those "True Christians" we hear so much about but never seem to find.

[Catholic_Lady]

CL, read what the early church fathers like Tertullian had to say on war, Capital Punishment or military service. Only with the Constantinian buttkissing contest of 313 they performed a complete turnaround. But one of the reasons why the church lost all credit with me.

I'm glad we've learned from the mistakes made hundreds to thousands of years ago.

---

Erm...I wouldn't call things like rules of engagement or limits to what the military can do as being 'politically correct.'

In that war, target lists were developed that made no military sense -- for instance, we couldn't attack shipping bringing replenishment SA-2 missiles into Haiphong, but on the target lists were sites where the batteries were operational. The best place to defeat any weapon is in the supply chain, before it may be brought to bear on your soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

That targeting decision was politically motivated, as a result of the policy of gradual escalation, and dictated from DC. It's an easy priority to establish when it ain't your ass flying into a barrage of SAMs and 23-mm fire.

Exactly.

[abaris]

I'm glad we've learned from the mistakes made hundreds to thousands of years ago.

And yet they didn't. They had it right before Constantine, and wrong ever since then. The early church fathers threatened every soldier doing service with excommunication, they didn't support capital punishment and threatened everyone extraditing a criminal with excommunication.

You see, there are instances where the church didn't learn, but regressed. That's why I call it the Constantinian buttkissing.

[Amarok]

Peace time drafts are immoral

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've been looking for this pedestal all day. Haven't found it.

[Minimalist]

CL, read what the early church fathers like Tertullian had to say on war, Capital Punishment or military service. Only with the Constantinian buttkissing contest of 313 they performed a complete turnaround. But one of the reasons why the church lost all credit with me.

I'm glad we've learned from the mistakes made hundreds to thousands of years ago.

---

In that war, target lists were developed that made no military sense -- for instance, we couldn't attack shipping bringing replenishment SA-2 missiles into Haiphong, but on the target lists were sites where the batteries were operational. The best place to defeat any weapon is in the supply chain, before it may be brought to bear on your soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

That targeting decision was politically motivated, as a result of the policy of gradual escalation, and dictated from DC. It's an easy priority to establish when it ain't your ass flying into a barrage of SAMs and 23-mm fire.

Exactly.

Try to imagine the potential problems which might have resulted from one of our planes attacking a 'neutral' ship.  

Georges Clemenceau: "War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men. "

[FatAndFaithless]

I'm still rather surprised that people are actually advocating for ignoring civilian casualties here. I'm not talking about vietnam in specific, I'm talking generally.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Try to imagine the potential problems which might have resulted from one of our planes attacking a 'neutral' ship.

Of course. But imagine striking those dockyard facilities while no ships were in port. Those missiles ain't gonna walk to the battery's deployment.

It should also be noted that supplying arms to a belligerent is, under international law, itself an act of war.

I'm still rather surprised that people are actually advocating for ignoring civilian casualties here.  I'm not talking about vietnam in specific, I'm talking generally.

For the record, I'm not arguing that civilian casualties should be ignored.