Serious Problems with Atheism

[Pulse]

I wanted to link to the cosmology article but as per rules I couldn't, but an open letter signed by 33 top Scientists in New Scientist, May Issue 2004, states the Big Bang is flawed and only popular due to funding. Just Google Big Bang Busted by 33 Top Scientists.

And regarding your statements that Atheism has been misunderstood by me, I can assure you Atheism affects all aspects of our lives and can be discussed from various angles.

[AceBoogie]

I wanted to link to the cosmology article but as per rules I couldn't, but an open letter signed by 33 top Scientists in New Scientist, May Issue 2004, states the Big Bang is flawed and only popular due to funding. Just Google Big Bang Busted by 33 Top Scientists.

And regarding your statements that Atheism has been misunderstood by me, I can assure you Atheism affects all aspects of our lives and can be discussed from various angles.

Ok well I'm certainly willing to look into that, but the consensus among the vast majority of scientists is that the Big Bang Theory is completely valid and true. It is quite often that religious folk question the "funding" behind a study or theory any time it does not jive with their personal point of view, so I cannot really say I'm surprised by you posting this.

Also, you absolutely do misunderstand the definition of atheism.

[Whateverist]

Omg, SHUSH it with the NDE stuff, Iggy!  *looks around*   Sick Ricky will hear!!!  

Actually interesting that you'd bring that up, Dr Eben Alexander, author of Proof of Heaven, a once very staunch Atheist who did not even believe in free will, is now a staunch believer 

(although not Christian) after an NDE. He describes in his book that during the NDE he was brain dead, as proved by his medical parameters at the time in the hospital, he is a 

Neurosurgeon, so we can't just say he doesn't know brain chemistry at near death events. In fact people with NDE's often describe what took place, in detail, during their surgery even 

though they were completely unconscious.

Yeah, being staunch about stuff probably isn't as good as knowing what you know and recognizing when you don't.  Staunch atheists are as brittle as staunch theists, and either can convert to the other for a myriad of reasons owing to their propensity for remaining resolutely certain.  But not all atheists are staunch.  Plenty are defacto atheists for whom the question of belief in a god is highly unlikely but not a point of faith.  Show me a good reason to believe in a god and I'll show you a new theist.  But fair warning: others have tried and none of the apologetics crap has moved me one iota.  Personal testimony - even less so.  

NDE's are either living brain phenomenon under extreme conditions or else literally tales from the other side.  Someone who has actually had the experience in question isn't necessarily any better informed than we are as which of those alternatives is correct.  They may truly believe they've been to the other side and be entirely mistaken.  They may be convinced but that doesn't mean we should be.  I can think of no way to convince you that NDE's have a mundane explanation, so I won't try.  But that is my working assumption and it is every bit as good as your own.  Agree to disagree?

[robvalue]

I think the serious problem with atheism at the moment is the high percentage of people who don't understand what it is. Even a lot of atheists. It's a problem we try to address daily on this forum.

Of course, some people insist on using their own definitions. That is fine, as long as they agree them with the other participants first.

[Pulse]

Actually interesting that you'd bring that up, Dr Eben Alexander, author of Proof of Heaven, a once very staunch Atheist who did not even believe in free will, is now a staunch believer 

(although not Christian) after an NDE. He describes in his book that during the NDE he was brain dead, as proved by his medical parameters at the time in the hospital, he is a 

Neurosurgeon, so we can't just say he doesn't know brain chemistry at near death events. In fact people with NDE's often describe what took place, in detail, during their surgery even 

though they were completely unconscious.

Yeah, being staunch about stuff probably isn't as good as knowing what you know and recognizing when you don't.  Staunch atheists are as brittle as staunch theists, and either can convert to the other for a myriad of reasons owing to their propensity for remaining resolutely certain.  But not all atheists are staunch.  Plenty are defacto atheists for whom the question of belief in a god is highly unlikely but not a point of faith.  Show me a good reason to believe in a god and I'll show you a new theist.  But fair warning: others have tried and none of the apologetics crap has moved me one iota.  Personal testimony - even less so.  

NDE's are either living brain phenomenon under extreme conditions or else literally tales from the other side.  Someone who has actually had the experience in question isn't necessarily any better informed than we are as which of those alternatives is correct.  They may truly believe they've been to the other side and be entirely mistaken.  They may be convinced but that doesn't mean we should be.  I can think of no way to convince you that NDE's have a mundane explanation, so I won't try.  But that is my working assumption and it is every bit as good as your own.  Agree to disagree?

Well when you have an EXTREMELY rare event of an actual Neurosurgeon having an NDE and changing his entire life because of his new belief system, and that still hasn't convinced you there's something to all this, then yeah, we agree to disagree.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are some very serious problems for atheists to consider;  

1)    R. Dawkins wrote the Universe has "no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." Dawkins, R., River out of Eden, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, London, p. 133, 1995.
        Why do atheists constantly use words like religion is evil, atheism good, when these terms are meaningless in a Godless Universe?

"Good" and "evil" aren't meaningless in a godless universe, they're relative.

2) If you were really an atheist, you would realize that we are ALL just rearranged pond scum and life is just a set of random Meaningless events in a random Meaningless Universe. 
    So as an atheist, why try so hard "Meaningfully" explaining  that in this utterly Meaningless Universe there's no deity?

The only reason why I bother anyone else at all about my atheism is when they try to change the laws to comport with their particular religion.

a) Possible responses maybe; Religion is dangerous and threatens our survival; BUT in a Godless Universe, why is humanity's survival better than extinction? If humans nuke one another out of existence, what difference will that make to the Universe?? 

That's the only "other side of the hill" response you could think of? Are you really unable to conceive any other objections to religion?

As for why humanity surviving is better than extinction, I'm not sure. Better for whom? Individuals? Certainly. The species? Perhaps, in the abstract. The other flora and fauna on the planet? Not bloody likely. And if humans go extinct, the universe won't care at all.

You sure do like your hidden premises.

3) Atheism; The Universe Caused itself, no First Cause needed; this requires blind faith and is counter-intuitive; very much the same as what atheists accuse religious people of, seems hypocritical doesn't it??

Religionism: God caused itself, no first cause, but if you say the same thing about the Universe you're flawed.

Religionism: Misstating a hypothesis as fact, accusing the hypothesizer of claiming certain knowledge of the "unknowable" and then asserting that "God works in mysterious ways".

Now, would you like to discuss hypocrisy for a moment?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

4) The Big Bang Theory is Full of Fudge factors that are an embarrassment to Cosmologists many of whom admit the theory is popular because it is well funded, but how is that an objective search for truth? 

[Citation needed]

[Bolding added -- Thump]

5)   Atheistic science these days is so Dogmatically wedded to Materialism, it cannot even begin to tell us what Consciousness is, the most basic principle of human existence. Doesn't it seem hypocritical that Atheism is so dogmatic?

It actually does tell us what consciousness is. Anyone who's read a little would know that.

Also, you need to support your accusation of "dogmatism", and tie the "atheist" and "science" parts together more convincingly.

 

6)  And BTW atheism has led to some pretty strange philosophies, like that of the Church of Euthanasia; Save the Planet, Kill Yourself! How can Atheists counter such "logic"?

False accusations won't garner you much traction here.

Do you often masturbate in public?

As a Christian I have experienced that no Atheist on earth has any convincing arguments to these most basic questions which I believe only the Christian religion can answer. I'll be honest, believing in Atheism would be so much easier in life because you can do whatever you want and think there is no consequences, but Ahteism seems so incredibly counter intuitive, that to even begin to take it seriously, one has to suspend all logic.

As a Christian, you in particular don't seemed to have even started to question your own premises enough to tell anyone else what is or isn't convincing.

Thoughts? 
(Again please keep it friendly, Ive had too much abuse from atheists already just for asking simple questions, and that just seems further proof to me Atheism is a delusion).

My thoughts? You're a thoughtless person who has yet to escape his social programming, a spoon-fed sheep led by a false shepherd who has just enough energy to bleat his ill-formed thoughts publicly, but not enough brains to formulate his own thinking on the matter yet.

Also, trying to poison the well is duly noticed.

Hope that's kind enough for you, and if not, my only question is, pineapple or cactus?

[robvalue]

Appeal to authority. Neurosurgeons aren't qualified to identify spiritual experiences. No one is, in fact, until it's even been demonstrated to be anything other than fantasy. If he was telling me about neurosurgery, then sure, I'd most likely believe what he had to say.

[Thumpalumpacus]

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

lol, you're begging the question.

You clearly haven't given this matter of life much thought. I sure hope you do, before you die, lest you waste it.

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At best he's an undetectable robot; at worst, he's a slave stuck in a thing where he can never learn anything and is doomed to watch me take a shit every morning.

Y'know, I like this point. I never really thought about it before, but omniscience must be a sort of slavery, in the sense that you'll never be able to change what you know will happen. And the torture comes when there's no more surprise in living.

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If he manages to understand and use this distinction, he'll be several years of progress ahead of some of our regulars.

You'll learn to read American and you'll like it!

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We are a true think tank of sceptics!

A sceptic tank, so to speak!

Segui to CL?

Goddamn cockney slangist.

[ignoramus]

Well said above Thump. (to Pulse)

I believe I've found an extra nugget of gold below to add to my current Atlas classic sig.

"Pulse Wrote:
~ Atheism seems so incredibly counter intuitive, that to even begin to take it seriously, one has to suspend all logic."

Pulse, seriously, please pickup a science book...for your own sake... learn science stuff ...your God isn't going anywhere.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I honestly never got why having God in the picture would suddenly provide meaning where there isn't any without God.

Some dogs are meant for collars; others are meant to run free.